MEETING BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD BOARD HEARING ROOM CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD 2020 L STREET SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA THURSDAY, OCTOBER 24, 1996 9:35 A.M. Nadine J. Parks Shorthand Reporter PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 ii MEMBERS PRESENT John D. Dunlap, III, Chairman Eugene A. Boston Joseph C. Calhoun Lynne T. Edgerton M. Patricia Hilligoss Jack C. Parnell Barbara Riordan Ron Roberts James W. Silva Doug Vagim Staff: Michael Kenny, Executive Officer Tom Cackette, Chief Deputy Executive Officer Mike Scheible, Deputy Executive Officer Kathleen Walsh, General Counsel Jim Schoning, Ombudsman Dennis Dickerson, Deputy Ombudsman, Southern California Bruce Oulrey, Staff, Office of the Ombudsman Bonnie Spiesberger, Stakeholders Consultant Chris Reynolds, Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs Bill Loscutoff, Chief, Monitoring & Laboratory Division Jim Shikiya, Chief, Southern Laboratory Branch, MLD Annette Hebert, Manager, Fuel Analysis and Methods Evaluation Section, Monitoring and Laboratory Division Linda Rabano, Staff, MLD Tom Jennings, Staff Counsel, Office of Legal Affairs Leslie Krinsk, Senior Staff Counsel, Office of Legal Affairs Victoria Davis, Staff Counsel, Office of Legal Affairs Bob Jenne, Staff Counsel, Office of Legal Affairs Patricia Hutchens, Clerk of the Board Wendy Grandchamp, Secretary Bill Valdez PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 iii I N D E X PAGE Proceedings 1 Call to Order 1 Pledge of Allegiance Led by Mayor Hilligoss 1 Roll Call 1, 2 Opening Statement by Chairman Dunlap 2 AGENDA ITEMS: 96-8-1 Public Meeting to Consider a Status Report on Stakeholder Forums Introductory Remarks by Chairman Dunlap 2 Staff Report: Mike Kenny Executive Officer 4 Jim Schoning Ombudsman 5 Bonnie Spiesberger, Ph.D. Stakeholders Consultant 20 PUBLIC COMMENTS: Daniel Phelan BALIA 23 Questions/Comments 24 Michael Murray SoCAL Gas Company 26 Questions/Comments 29 Paul Knepprath American Lung Association 32 Questions/Comments 34 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 iv INDEX, continued. . . PAGE AGENDA ITEMS: 96-8-2 Public Meeting to Consider Report on Legislative Session and Air Quality Legislation Introductory Remarks by Chairman Dunlap 38 Staff Presentation: Mike Kenny Executive Officer 39 Chris Reynolds Director, Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 40 Questions/Comments 57 96-8-3 Public Hearing to Consider Amending Test Methods Designated to Measure Concentrations of Total Aromatic Hydrocarbons, Polynuclear Aromatic Hydrocarbons, Nitrogen, and Sulfur Content in and distillation of California Commercial Certification Diesel Fuels Introductory Remarks by Chairman Dunlap 62 Staff Presentation: Mike Kenny Executive Officer 62 Annette Hebert Manager Fuel Analysis & Methods Evaluation Section, MLD 63 Linda Rabano Staff MLD 66 Jim Schoning Ombudsman 71 Questions/Comments 72 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 v INDEX, continued. . . PAGE AGENDA ITEMS: 96-8-3 PUBLIC COMMENTS: Aeron Arlin WSPA 76 Questions/Comments 77 Official Closing of Public Testimony 78 Entry of Written Comments into Record by Ms. Hebert 78 Closing of Record on Item 96-8-3 to await notice of opening of public comment period 78 Motion by Riordan to Adopt Resolution 96-54 79 Board Action 79, 80 96-8-4 Public Meeting to Consider Creation of Committee of the Board to Review the Decision of the Executive Officer to Order the Recall of Motor Vehicles and to Appoint the Members of the Committee Introductory Remarks by Chairman Dunlap 80 Staff Presentation: Kathleen Walsh General Counsel 81 Questions/Comments 85 Timothy McCann, Esq. Legal Staff General Motors 85 Questions/Comments 86 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 vi INDEX, continued. . . PAGE AGENDA ITEMS: 96-8-4 Suggestion by Chairman re procedure 88 Motion by Roberts to Adopt Chair's Suggestion 89 Board Action 89 Open Session Comments/Questions 89 Adjournment 102 Certificate of Reporter 103 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 1 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 --o0o-- 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Will this, the October meeting 4 of the California Air Resources Board please come to order. 5 Mayor Hilligoss, could I ask you to lead us in the 6 Pledge of Allegiance, please. 7 MAYOR HILLIGOSS: Please join me. 8 (Thereupon, all persons in the hearing room 9 joined in the recitation of the Pledge of 10 Allegiance.) 11 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you, Patti. 12 May I ask the Clerk of the Board to please call 13 the roll. 14 MS. HUTCHENS: Boston? 15 DR. BOSTON: Here. 16 MS. HUTCHENS: Calhoun? 17 MR. CALHOUN: Here. 18 MS. HUTCHENS: Edgerton? 19 MS. EDGERTON: Here. 20 MS. HUTCHENS: Hilligoss? 21 MAYOR HILLIGOSS: Here. 22 MS. HUTCHENS: Parnell? 23 MR. PARNELL: Here. 24 MS. HUTCHENS: Riordan? 25 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: Here. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 2 1 MS. HUTCHENS: Roberts? 2 SUPERVISOR ROBERTS: Here. 3 MS. HUTCHENS: Silva? 4 SUPERVISOR SILVA: Here. 5 MS. HUTCHENS: Vagim? 6 SUPERVISOR VAGIM: Here. 7 MS. HUTCHENS: Chairman Dunlap. 8 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Here. 9 All right. Thank you. I would like to welcome 10 you all to today's Board meeting. It's kind of a cozy place 11 to be with the weather cold and wet outside. 12 For those that are going to be tracking this 13 meeting today, it should move fairly quickly. And I don't 14 anticipate us going past twelve noon. 15 I would like to remind those in the audience who'd 16 like to present testimony to the Board on any of today's 17 items to please sign up with the Clerk of the Board. If you 18 have a written statement, please give 20 copies to the Clerk 19 of the Board. 20 The first item on the agenda today is 96-8-1, 21 public meeting to consider a status report on stakeholders' 22 forums. 23 As some on the Board may recall, last December we 24 heard from our Ombudsman, Jim Schoning, about a series of 25 air quality visioning forums that were being planned for the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 3 1 upcoming year. The intent was to reach out to air quality 2 stakeholders around the State and to hear their views about 3 where they thought California's air quality management 4 system should be headed over the next five to ten years. 5 Staff has now held some nine forums, one internal, 6 which included about 70 Air Resources Board and air district 7 senior managers, and eight external forums around the State. 8 I personally attended three of the external forums, one in 9 Diamond Bar, one in San Francisco, and one here in 10 Sacramento. And I know a number of my colleagues on the 11 Board attended some of them. 12 I believe Ron, Jim Silva, Doug Vagim, and Patti 13 Hilligoss attended one or more of the forums. 14 My personal observation was that they were well 15 organized. I felt that we reached out to some key 16 stakeholders to try to get them in the room with their 17 colleagues and with us, and we asked some difficult, 18 far-reaching questions of them. And we got some -- I think 19 some important feedback. 20 But I guess one final observation I would make is 21 that there has been far too much, in my view, of controversy 22 surrounding the clean air agenda, particularly in our 23 State's Capitol over the last couple years. And the agenda 24 that we have to move forward is one of public health 25 protection. And it has been politicized, I think, to the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 4 1 point where it has been, in some respects, destructive to 2 the progress to date and has also, I think, misrepresented 3 some of the issues that we have tried to focus on and deal 4 with again the public health emphasis. 5 And so, I think that these forums were a way for 6 us to not only demonstrate some leadership and work with the 7 locals in doing that, but also to try to dispel myths and to 8 put together, I think, stronger working relations. And that 9 is, I think, very important and valuable to us. 10 So, with that, I'd like to ask Mr. Kenny to 11 introduce the item and begin the staff's presentation. 12 Mike? 13 MR. KENNY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members 14 of the Board. I feel rather fortunate, in that, when I 15 began my role as Executive Officer in August of this year, 16 the stakeholder was well underway. 17 Still not working (speaking of malfunctioning 18 microphone)? 19 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: There it is. 20 MR. KENNY: Excuse me. The last forum occurred 21 really just two days after I took over my job as the new 22 Executive Officer, and I did attend that forum. 23 These forums were borne out of a desire for 24 continuous improvement, and this process has been very 25 fruitful from my viewpoint. It's brought us together with PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 5 1 over 350 stakeholders. We've worked together to identify 2 the key areas that we should be working on to build an even 3 better program in the future than we have today. 4 The ARB Ombudsman, Jim Schoning, and his staff 5 have been instrumental in organizing these forums. They've 6 brought stakeholders together and they've extracted some 7 very meaningful results out of the process that we've 8 engaged in. 9 We're already using the results of these forums in 10 our planning and management practices, and we are working to 11 expand the public outreach effort that we have here at the 12 Air Resources Board. 13 With that in mind, let me introduce our Ombudsman, 14 Mr. Jim Schoning, so that he can provide to you at least a 15 sense of how these forums have actually gone forward. 16 Thank you. 17 MR. SCHONING: Thank you, Mr. Kenny. And good 18 morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the Board. 19 I appreciate the opportunity to report to you this 20 morning on the series of nine stakeholder forums that we've 21 conducted with the California Air Pollution Control Officers 22 Association over the last several months that many believe 23 are a part of and parallel to an expanded way of thinking, 24 and approaching, and conducting the business -- and 25 especially the unfinished business -- of air quality PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 6 1 management in California. 2 I want to cover three basic topic areas: first, a 3 brief background about what visioning forums are all about, 4 how they complement other ARB and CAPCOA planning tools, 5 what prompted us to do the forums, where we've held them 6 around the State, who participated, and what we've hoped to 7 accomplish with them. 8 Second, I'll discuss some of the key themes we've 9 heard at the forums, the opportunities that we believe are 10 developing around the theme of partnerships, and some of the 11 conclusions that seem to be emerging. 12 Finally, we'll review the next steps we plan to 13 take and to follow up on the initial stakeholder visioning 14 forums. 15 "Visioning" is a strategic planning technique 16 that's being used by a growing number of public and private 17 sector organizations to prepare for the future. Visioning 18 seeks to enable us to visualize the future and to identify 19 steps we can take to come to a successful conclusion, much 20 as athletes and actors envision in their minds the steps 21 they will take to perform successfully. 22 Out visioning process includes our stakeholders 23 who provided important input, that of our customers. 24 Stakeholders know, perhaps better than any, what does and 25 doesn't work for them, and they're an essential element in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 7 1 this process. 2 Visioning begins looking back into the past, 3 seeing how we've responded to change, often well and 4 sometimes not so well, learning from our mistakes and our 5 successes, and perhaps most fundamental, recognizing change 6 is a constant. 7 It includes looking at the present and identifying 8 strengths and weaknesses in our current; so that, as we plan 9 for and encounter change, those characteristics and values 10 and approaches that work can be brought forward, and those 11 that are not so promising may be left behind. 12 Finally, visioning includes looking into the 13 future and then, with that perspective in mind, planning for 14 it. It tries to anticipate economic, social, and political 15 changes throughout our culture and other cultures that are 16 part of our global environment, and it allows us to adjust 17 and plan for such changes accordingly. 18 Strategic planning isn't new to California air 19 quality management. As we planned these forums, we were 20 mindful of a number of other planning tools. The State's 34 21 local districts are required by State and Federal law to 22 develop and submit to ARB air quality management plans, or 23 AQMPs, for approval. These are, in turn, are used by both 24 the State of California and U.S. EPA in their planning and 25 implementation efforts. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 8 1 In addition, ARB works with air districts to 2 develop a State Implementation Plan, or SIP, which must be 3 approved by both ARB and U.S. EPA. 4 California's SIP was, of course, approved by ARB 5 in November, 1994, and by U.S. EPA this past September. 6 Essentially, both the AQMPs and the SIP lay out 7 the measures each air district and the State will take to 8 attain healthful air quality by specified points in time. 9 ARB's strategic plan is yet another very useful planning 10 tool that helps focus efforts to carry out the measures 11 stated in the SIP. 12 It emphasizes innovation, leadership, and customer 13 service in the way we carry out the SIP measures. 14 In planning the forums, one of the most important 15 considerations was identifying first who our stakeholders 16 are; that is, who are those that care about and have a stake 17 in our air quality management program. 18 Stakeholders included civic groups, from the 19 League of Women Voters to the Mothers of East L.A.; 20 environmental groups, from the American Lung Association to 21 the Union of Concerned Scientists and many others; regulated 22 businesses, from agriculture to private utilities, defense 23 and aerospace, electronics, food processing, petroleum, and 24 timber industries; government agencies, city and county 25 transportation and regional planners, councils of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 9 1 governments, the Federal Government -- including the U.S. 2 EPA -- and very critical, both ARB and air district 3 employees. 4 Policy makers, as the Chairman mentioned, a number 5 of the members of ARB were participants in these processes, 6 and staff from a number of State legislators as well. 7 In all, we conducted nine stakeholder forums -- 8 one internal and eight external forums. Under the 9 leadership of facilitator Bonnie Spiesberger, each forum 10 began in a carefully planned and structured way, with all 11 stakeholders reviewing and reflecting upon key events in 12 California's five-decade effort to control air pollution and 13 provide healthful air quality for its citizens. Some 14 indication of that history is on the north wall of the 15 hearing room when the lights go back up. 16 Next, stakeholders worked in predetermined small 17 groups of 12 to 20, with each group including 18 representatives of citizen, environmental, business, and 19 public agencies. Led by a facilitator and assisted by a 20 recorder in each group, stakeholders first identified and 21 prioritized what they believe to be key strengths and 22 weaknesses in our current system. 23 They then reported their findings to members of 24 the other breakout groups. Back in their small groups, 25 stakeholders were then asked to identify future trends they PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 10 1 foresaw, drawing upon insight from their own roles in their 2 organizations and professions in their own communities that 3 they believe California should take into account in planning 4 for the success of our air quality management system. 5 As the day progressed, stakeholders remained in 6 their small groups, but they worked in increasingly more 7 independent fashion. Building upon their assessment of 8 strengths and weaknesses and future trends generated earlier 9 in the day, each group developed its own vision for the 10 future of California's air quality management program. 11 And when the lights go up, you can see the results 12 of our own internal stakeholder workshop on the south wall. 13 The culmination of each day's work was the 14 development of a vision banner that addressed the group's 15 vision of how the optimal California air quality system will 16 express its mission, its philosophy, and its values; what 17 goals, programs, and services it will pursue; how it will 18 deal with customers and stakeholders, what kinds of 19 employees with what sorts of skills using what kinds of 20 technologies and methodologies will be required. 21 For the initial stakeholder forum, we looked 22 within ourselves first, to the managers of the current 23 system. Some 70 senior air quality management officials, 35 24 from ARB and 35 from local districts met together in a 25 single, one and one-half day visioning workshop held on PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 11 1 February 29 and March 1, 1996. 2 The main points we heard at the internal 3 stakeholders meeting included that we should maintain an 4 experienced and skilled staff. We should continue strong 5 science-based programs. We should improve upon existing 6 public education programs, and we should maintain an open, 7 collaborative regulatory process to develop and implement 8 these programs. 9 We turned next to a series of eight one-day 10 visioning workshops throughout California with district and 11 ARB stakeholders from a total of 18 local districts to hear 12 and gather their views. 13 These meetings were held in the San Diego Air 14 Pollution control District, two in the South Coast, one in 15 Santa Barbara, which included the Santa Barbara, San Luis 16 Obispo, and Ventura Air Districts; one in Fresno for the San 17 Joaquin Valley Unified District; one in Redding, which 18 included the Shasta, the Tehama, Butte, Glenn, and North 19 Coast Districts; one in San Francisco for the Bay Area; and 20 finally, one here in Sacramento, which included not only 21 Sacramento, but El Dorado, Placer, Yolo-Solano, and the 22 Feather River Air Districts. 23 Some of the products from the stakeholder 24 visioning forums to date have included working notes from 25 each of the forums, which were sent to each of the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 12 1 participants in order that they might hold the managers of 2 the forums accountable for what they did or failed to do 3 with the results; a summary of key themes that emerged from 4 these forums, and they were likewise sent to stakeholders. 5 Then, we surveyed the stakeholders as to which of 6 the themes they deemed were most significant, and we 7 likewise are in the process of tabulating the results from 8 the key theme survey. I want to talk a little bit more 9 about each of these products. 10 The complete set of working notes was generated 11 following each forum and disseminated to stakeholder 12 participants. These included each group's recorded work in 13 four key areas, the strengths and weaknesses of the current 14 system, important future trends, and shared visions for the 15 future. 16 Copies of these are available, I believe, at the 17 rear table, and also in the Office of the Ombudsman and the 18 Public Information Office. 19 After we completed the forum series in August and 20 reviewed the working notes, we compiled a draft document 21 entitled, "Summary of Key Themes." This document, a copy of 22 which is in your Board book, identifies the 11 key points we 23 heard from stakeholders around the State. 24 The themes focused on key features the 25 stakeholders believe are crucial to the future success of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 13 1 California's air quality management program. We wanted to 2 confirm our interpretation of the key themes and see what 3 distinction stakeholders made as to importance. So, we 4 developed the survey of the key themes, and asked our 5 stakeholders to provide an additional round of input. 6 In order to organize the stakeholder input into a 7 forum that can be readily integrated into our ongoing 8 strategic planning efforts, the survey asked each of our 357 9 stakeholder participants to pick the five themselves from 10 the summary of 11 we compiled from around the State which 11 each stakeholder felt are most critical to the future 12 success of our air quality management program in California. 13 To date, we've received over 200 responses from 14 the survey reflecting what our stakeholders believe are the 15 top five themes for us to focus upon. The top themes we 16 heard were: carry forward a clear and strong science-based 17 air program; reduce regulatory complexity and cost; 18 strengthen our public information and awareness programs, 19 continue the involvement of stakeholders in air programs, 20 and pursue proportionate emission reductions. 21 Let me talk a little bit more about each of those 22 themes. 73 percent of the survey respondents indicated that 23 carrying forward a clear and strong science-based program 24 was a priority for them. 25 This was a fairly universally recognized theme of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 14 1 importance with the business community and environmental 2 community, as well as citizens and public agencies all 3 agreeing that sound science is essential to assure an 4 effective and credible program. 5 Most stakeholders agree that the government should 6 not be the only responsible entity performing scientific 7 work, and that joint research projects and partnerships -- 8 such as the San Joaquin Valley PM10 study, which includes 9 stakeholders from business, government, and the 10 environmental public health community -- should be pursued. 11 Other examples on sound science, since this is our 12 top priority, include better air quality models utilizing 13 better emission inventories and chemical reactivity data; 14 air quality data that are more representative of human 15 exposure, and better risk assessment models based on more 16 accurate data and less on assumptions. 17 64 percent believe that reducing regulatory 18 complexity and cost is a key area. We heard this comment 19 quite often. However, it was typically stated in general 20 terms, such as the regulations are just too long. An 21 example, there's a Federal chromium air toxic control 22 measure that is more than a hundred pages, and they're not 23 presented in an easy-to-understand manner. 24 Often, the comment was presented from the broader 25 perspective of environmental regulations as a whole, with PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 15 1 individuals being required to obtain permits for air, water, 2 hazardous waste, safety, and so forth from multiple layers 3 of regulatory agencies. This concern is very real to many 4 of our stakeholders and merits followup. 5 Strengthening California's air quality public 6 information and awareness program was cited by 54 percent of 7 respondents to date. This theme centers around two 8 elements. One is a need to better communicate our story. 9 Everyone familiar with the California system believes we 10 have made enormous headway and tremendous successes, if one 11 steps back from today and views our work over the last 30 12 years, but we need to tell that story. 13 Second, we need to tell the story about the 14 strategies we're currently undertaking to continue to 15 improve California's air quality system. 16 The second element is to do a better job of 17 educating citizens and the public about actions, such as 18 vehicle maintenance that individual citizens can take to 19 exercise personal responsibility for being part of the clean 20 air solution. 21 A model that was frequently cited as a successful 22 public awareness approach was the cleaner burning gasoline 23 outreach campaign. It was carried out by ARB and many of 24 its stakeholders, including auto manufacturers, refineries, 25 repair industry leaders, other government agencies, and the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 16 1 environmental/public health community. 2 It proactively reaches out to industries, such as 3 fleet operators and repair shops, legislative policymakers, 4 the media, citizen groups, and others to inform them about 5 the arrival of ARB's cleaner burning gas and the air quality 6 benefits Californians have realized from it. 7 53 percent of our stakeholders see continued 8 involvement of stakeholders in the development and 9 implementation of air quality management programs as a key 10 area of focus in California. 11 Examples included maintaining a fair and open 12 program development process, using stakeholder focus groups, 13 and utilizing partnerships in problem solving in the 14 development of strategies. As mentioned earlier, the San 15 Joaquin Valley PM study and the CBG introduction are 16 positive examples of invaluable stakeholder collaboration. 17 47 percent of our respondents identified pursuing 18 proportionate emission reductions as an essential area of 19 concern for ensuring a successful, fair, and equitable air 20 quality management system. Again, there was strong 21 agreement by many stakeholders around the State across 22 interest groups that a given category of emitters, such as 23 automobiles, should be held accountable for a reduction in 24 emissions proportionate to what it contributes. 25 Many argue the need to somehow reduce vehicle PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 17 1 miles traveled as an approach toward reducing emissions from 2 the mobile source sector. Improved transportation 3 alternative strategies, such as regional transit, ride 4 sharing, and telecommuting, as well as better and stronger 5 awareness of air quality concerns by land-use planners were 6 possible steps that some cited. 7 In conclusion, our stakeholders believe that 8 improved air quality is a worthwhile goal and one that 9 Californians want and expect. Air quality improvements to 10 date are impressive; however, we do need to do a better job 11 of telling that story. 12 The stakeholder visioning process is valuable. 13 There is a desire for continued followup and participation. 14 Perhaps one outcome of this process can be yet more 15 collaborative process. 16 Stakeholders desire tangible followup. They were 17 positive about this process, but they're interested in 18 seeing results. 19 The future holds numerous opportunities for 20 partnerships. Research, rule development, public outreach, 21 permit streamlining, compliance, and business assistance are 22 all areas that are ripe for joint efforts to continue our 23 work. 24 Some of the items we see on the horizon include 25 internal evaluation and action -- as Mr. Kenny alluded in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 18 1 his introduction, he and his management team are already 2 taking significant action on a variety of these ideas that 3 have come from the forums. The planning process is also 4 underway with ARB, and I will allow Mr. Kenny to comment on 5 that in a few moments. 6 We're in the process of planning two follow-up 7 workshops, one in each end of the State, prior to Christmas. 8 We want to share the results of what we have learned to date 9 and we want to hear what our stakeholders believe could be 10 and should be the next steps in order to put these ideas 11 into action. 12 Additionally, with several of the districts, we've 13 discussed the possibility of meeting again at the local 14 level with their stakeholders to report back to them and to 15 help identify next steps that local stakeholders, district 16 staff -- and where appropriate, ARB staff -- might take 17 action together. 18 We will, of course, report back to the Board as 19 progress merits, and we want to continue to pursue 20 opportunities for partnerships. It's clear that public 21 agencies cannot deliver California's air quality program 22 alone. We depend upon input and support from our 23 stakeholders. Opportunities for partnership abound in areas 24 such as public education and outreach, research and 25 planning, and regulatory reform as we implement a SIP which PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 19 1 shows attainment in the year 2010. 2 Mr. Chairman and members of the Board, many of 3 you, especially the Chairman and the Executive Office, as 4 well as each ARB division and dozens of ARB staff assisted 5 in this process together with our partners from the local 6 air districts. But at this time, I'd like to introduce 7 several members of the team that were instrumental in making 8 these forums happen. 9 First, on my far right, ARB Deputy Ombudsman 10 Dennis Dickerson, who works out of ARB's Southern California 11 El Monte office; served as a facilitator at each of the 12 external forums, was a key member of the team in compiling 13 the working notes from a number of the forums, and assisting 14 in the analysis of those notes. 15 Next, ARB Assistant Ombudsman, Bruce Oulrey, was a 16 key member of the team, from developing and bringing to 17 fruition the initial stakeholder concept to managing much of 18 the visioning forum process, including serving as a meeting 19 facilitator at each meeting and developing the final key 20 theme survey. 21 Finally, I'd like to introduce Dr. Bonnie 22 Spiesberger of Spiesberger & Associates with whom we 23 contracted to serve as our advisor, mistress of ceremonies, 24 and maestro at each of the forums. 25 Dr. Spiesberger is a former school principal and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 20 1 has done extensive work in the area of visioning and 2 strategic planning. Bonnie, we would not have made it 3 without you. And I think I want to offer you the chance to 4 offer a few words in your own behalf. 5 DR. SPIESBERGER: Thank you. Well, it was quite 6 an experience. And I, first of all, Mr. Chairman and 7 members of the Board, I'm very pleased to be here and to 8 comment a bit on what took place. 9 Jim's really covered a great deal of the 10 information. So, all I'd really like to add are just some 11 of the concepts that we put forward to the stakeholders who 12 attended the forums in order to frame their thinking, 13 because we were not looking at a problem-solving process. 14 We really wanted them to think big picture concepts, sort of 15 the first pass. 16 And so, what we talked about, as we set them to 17 work in the afternoon to produce what you see -- a sample of 18 which you see on the wall when the lights go up -- is a 19 concept about organizational visioning. And what we look at 20 when we talk about organizational visioning is trying to 21 capture aspirations and values. It's a way of channeling 22 our loftiest aspirations and our deepest values of the 23 workplace to form a picture of a preferred future, to set 24 that image in front of us. 25 A vision statement captures those values and those PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 21 1 hopes into an exciting expression of how we want our 2 organization, our system, to be. 3 It provides meaning and purpose for a system, an 4 organization. And anyone is capable of forming a compelling 5 vision. When people within the system, within an 6 organization, actively become a part of the creation of its 7 vision, a strong sense of commitment, community, and 8 connection evolves and, within that, the alignment of 9 personal values into a shared declaration of the future. 10 We saw a great deal of agreement across the State 11 about what stakeholders believe to be important. Jim has 12 mentioned the key themes that came out of that process. 13 Organizations and systems use visioning as a tool 14 to create the sense of shared values and purpose, and to 15 help connect all activities within the system with the 16 articulation of the vision. 17 Vision forms a unifying focus about the way we 18 want to work with each other and with our customers. It's 19 not a plan of how to get there, of how to get to that 20 desired future state, but it's an inspiring image of what 21 that ideal state could be. 22 A system, an organization, whose members and 23 stakeholders have created a clear and compelling vision 24 presents an optimistic, dynamic, and motivating picture of 25 its future, a future that's worth pursuing. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 22 1 Visioning is the beginning; it's not an end in and 2 of itself. It's the power of the dialogue; it's the 3 translation and the transformation through the 4 conversations, through the dialogue, through the planning, 5 into active changes, into implementation that make the 6 differences, that bring a system forward towards carrying 7 out its mission. And that's the power of it. And through 8 continuous improvement, asking the question honoring those 9 results and acting on those results are what can propel you 10 forward strategically into the future and meet your 11 customers' expectations and needs. 12 I enjoyed the process of working with everyone 13 here at the Board. Thank you very much. 14 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Thank you. Anything else 15 to add, Mr. Schoning? 16 MR. SCHONING: No, Mr. Chairman. That concludes 17 our presentation. I'd be happy to answer any questions. 18 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Thank you. 19 With that, I'd like to ask the Board members if 20 they have any questions of staff. We have three witnesses 21 that have signed up to testify. 22 Any questions? All right. Why don't we hear from 23 the witnesses then. We'll ask Dan Phelan from BALIA to come 24 forward, followed by Mike Murray from SoCAL Gas Company, and 25 Paul Knepprath from the American Lung Association. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 23 1 Hello, Mr. Phelan. Good to see you. 2 MR. PHELAN: Good morning, Chairperson Dunlap and 3 Board members. 4 For the record, my name is Dan Phelan, speaking 5 for the Bay Area League of Industrial Associations. As the 6 title implies, we're from the Bay Area, but we don't really 7 represent associations as much as we represent the larger 8 and heavy industry members in the Bay Area. 9 I haven't been before you recently, because I've 10 been spending most of my time working with your working 11 groups that -- CAPCOA, EPA, and ARB -- are working on 12 interesting subjects like Title 5 and Title 3. As you all 13 well know, Title 5 was a success. We came out and received 14 recognition for our work with White Paper No. 2, and we hope 15 and trust that something's going to come out of Title 3, 16 too. But that's still in the process. 17 I want to congratulate Jim Schoning on an 18 excellent process. We try to put on things like this in our 19 little area, and I know how much work that it takes to 20 accomplish this. And we think it was a very professional 21 and very well done effort based on what we saw in the Bay 22 Area and what we've heard from other people around the 23 State. 24 I think one of the things I want to mention to you 25 is that I was highly flattered that three of the things that PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 24 1 Jim put on the screen today were among the five that I put 2 in in my followup. He was good enough to follow up. Very 3 often, when you go to these things, you make your comments 4 and you never hear anything more about it. 5 In this case, I got a comment back and got it in 6 almost on time. And then today, I've found that in that -- 7 the top leader, carry forward clear and strong science-based 8 air quality standards is not only a winner with me, I think 9 it's a winner with most of the people that I deal with in 10 the Bay Area. And I'm glad to see it was right at the top 11 of your list today. 12 I don't have too much more to add. Be glad to 13 answer any question from the Board about how the Bay Area 14 can help in this. We intend to follow through. And it's 15 not only BALIA. I don't want to take credit for just BALIA 16 participating, but all of the associations and the leading 17 people in the Bay Area are very interested in working in the 18 working groups and doing what we can to support the effort. 19 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you, Mr. Phelan. Any 20 questions for Dan before he leaves us? 21 I have one question for you. One of the things 22 I've heard from your organization and others is that -- 23 particularly on issues where, you know, we have support and 24 opposition on any given clean air issue -- that oftentimes 25 there isn't an opportunity for people on both sides of those PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 25 1 issues, separate from government, to have a chance to talk 2 about them. 3 Do you think that this kind of effort, these 4 visioning forums, were of any value as far as bringing 5 people together that normally wouldn't be spending time 6 together to talk about issues like clean air? I mean, did 7 you see any people kind of connecting or getting to know 8 each other for the first time? Did that strike you as being 9 of value? Did you see that happen, Dan? 10 MR. PHELAN: Yes. I thought the break-out 11 sessions that were part of the process and the way it was 12 done was very -- was very well handled. And I just recall 13 in the break-out session that I was in -- I think it was 14 color-coded -- an attorney was there from our staff, and a 15 director was there, one of our leading directors were, and I 16 was there, and one of the environmental managers from a 17 large corporation that's very active was there. And we had 18 a very interesting discussion there for about -- what we 19 were talking about really isn't important as the fact that I 20 think, if that process hadn't been there, those people would 21 never have -- never have gotten together. 22 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yeah. 23 MR. PHELAN: And something came out of it -- out 24 of that. So, it was a -- this is a difficult area. We deal 25 with it. It's sort of my business to try to bring our PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 26 1 association members together. And I want to emphasize that 2 we really appreciate the professionalism of your staff in 3 the way they went about this. 4 So, I can say, yes. I think something came out of 5 it. I would add that it's difficult. There's no -- the 6 work that we move ahead -- Title 3, that's a monster in its 7 complexity and its diversity, and what has to be. But this 8 is a good approach. Part of that approach is right here. 9 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Great. Thank you. Any other 10 questions or comments? 11 Do you have anything, Jim? All right. Thank you, 12 Mr. Phelan. 13 Mr. Murray, SoCAL Gas. And Mike, while we have 14 you up there, if you wouldn't mind, give us a few seconds on 15 what's happened with your company, as far as mergers and the 16 like, so that we might be kept properly abreast. 17 MR. MURRAY: All right. I'll try to basically 18 tell you what I know to date. 19 But on Mr. Schoning's efforts, I would like to 20 express my appreciation to Mr. Schoning. We thought that he 21 did an admirable job. For those of you who have done these 22 types of big things before, you know they are very involved; 23 they take a lot of work and a lot of collaborative efforts. 24 And we applaud his efforts in this area. 25 I also want to express disappointment. Despite my PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 27 1 best efforts and Jim's efforts to contact me, I was unable 2 to personally attend any of the visioning sessions. And 3 that was particularly disappointing when he called me and 4 said one was going to be in Santa Barbara, my former home, 5 and that they were going to spend a day down there, and I 6 would have had an opportunity to go back and visit some 7 friends. 8 But we did have representatives at a number of the 9 forums. And the word we got back is that they were very 10 open and frank discussions; that they provided opportunities 11 for the regulated community to share with the regulators 12 some of the issues on the table. And I think they did two 13 things. First, I think it provided an opportunity for folks 14 to sit down in a collaborative effort, oftentimes -- and as, 15 John, you alluded to, we see issues in rather a contentious 16 manner. And we all know that things can happen a lot easier 17 and a lot faster if it's done in a collaborative effort. 18 And I think forums such as this provide that opportunity, 19 realizing that we all share the same goal -- whether it's 20 the regulated community or you as regulators -- and that is 21 clean air. And so, this provides that type of opportunity. 22 And second, I think it also allows us to expand 23 beyond our day-to-day trench-type activities that we're 24 involved in. Most of us are involved in very detail 25 oriented type of programs where we might be involved in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 28 1 Title 3 or Title 5. And this provided us to take a step 2 back and look at the larger picture to try to put the pieces 3 together and see where, directionally, we were headed. 4 So, I think that was a valuable asset of the 5 forums, and I would encourage that these type of activities 6 be continued in the future. And I think, again, Mr. 7 Schoning did an admirable job. 8 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you. 9 MR. MURRAY: That's the easy part of what you've 10 just asked me to do. In terms of the merger, as you all 11 should know by now -- it's out in all the Press -- there is 12 a proposed merger between San Diego Gas & Electric and 13 Pacific Enterprises. 14 The merger is intended to be completed by January 15 1st, 1998, in time for electric deregulation. We fully 16 anticipate that we will get that done in that mentioned time 17 frame. We are currently busy at work preparing all the 18 necessary papers that must be filed at the regulatory 19 agencies, such as the Public Utilities Commission, and those 20 types of activities. 21 We are working hand in hand with San Diego Gas & 22 Electric to make this happen. We have general support from 23 most of the people we've talked to. So, we look forward to 24 that opportunity of having that merger successful about a 25 year from now. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 29 1 As far as any details, such as assets, number of 2 people, and so forth, I can certainly provide you background 3 on that. We have information packets that I think, John, 4 you may have gotten some of that. 5 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: I did. 6 MR. MURRAY: If any of the Board members are 7 interested, I'd be more than happy to provide that. 8 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: If you wouldn't mind, Mike, if 9 you could just put our Board members on the list to get 10 that, I'd be grateful. 11 MR. MURRAY: Absolutely. 12 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: I do want to track this, 13 particularly in light of some of the innovative 14 transportation work you guys have been involved with. 15 MR. MURRAY: Yes, absolutely. 16 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. 17 MR. MURRAY: We'd be more than happy to do that. 18 And the other thing I will commit to is that, as information 19 becomes available to us, we will provide that to you as well 20 as we proceed down this path, the path of the merger. 21 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you. Any questions of Mr. 22 Murray? Yes, Lynne. 23 MS. EDGERTON: It's nice to see you here, Mr. 24 Murray. 25 Can you reassure us that some of the -- with PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 30 1 respect to what some of the -- what the future is for some 2 of the innovative programs the gas company has had in place 3 that we've been relying on -- I do have a sense of, just 4 following on the Chairman's comment -- are they going to 5 stay in place or is everything up for a review? 6 MR. MURRAY: To be perfectly frank, I can't say 7 yes or no. I mean it's been a little less than two weeks 8 now, and so I can't make that kind of commitment. I just 9 don't know. And if I did, I would honestly tell you, but I 10 just don't know. 11 MS. EDGERTON: Well, if you -- if there is someone 12 who does know at this point, or as soon as they do, I think 13 it'd be great if they'd send a note to the Chairman -- 14 MR. MURRAY: Sure. 15 MS. EDGERTON: -- and let us know what -- 16 MR. MURRAY: Like I said, as soon as I get 17 information, you'll be the -- well, not the second to know, 18 but you'll be right up there. 19 MS. EDGERTON: Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: And if I may embellish on 21 Lynne's comments, those two companies have provided 22 significant leadership in areas that we certainly are 23 interested in. And I know that Ron's been real active with 24 the San Diego part of that merger. And he's not shy about 25 speaking up on things he believes in with them. And there PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 31 1 are others here that know -- I, for example, worked very 2 closely with SoCAL Gas Company over the years. And they've 3 provided leadership. And I'll be happy to make a call and 4 encourage folks to keep doing the right thing. 5 MR. MURRAY: I'd appreciate that. And I can 6 assure you that all of us who work in the environmental 7 field in those two companies will certainly, to the extent 8 that we're listened to, will certainly advocate those 9 positions as well. 10 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: You want to say anything, Ron? 11 SUPERVISOR ROBERTS: I think I'm probably in that 12 group of people that are referred to as those who are 13 greeting this as good news. Initially, I wasn't sure, 14 because I received a call on six o'clock on Monday morning 15 by a very excited crew from SDG & E. And I've had some 16 follow-up conversations after I did wake up. And we're 17 enthusiastic about it. And I think it has the potential 18 for-- I've had conversations with Tom Page and a number of 19 the other people in San Diego about the maintenance of the 20 positive programs that they've been involved with. 21 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you. I know we put you on 22 the spot, but it's important for us to have a sense of 23 what's going on. 24 Thank you very much. Appreciate your kind words 25 about Mr. Schoning and the work they've done. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 32 1 Paul Knepprath, American Lung Association. Good 2 morning, Paul. How are you today? 3 MR. KNEPPRATH: Good morning. Well, I'm fighting 4 off a nasty bug. Don't forget to get your flu shots, 5 everybody. It's that time of year again. 6 On behalf of the American Lung Association of 7 California, I want to make some comments about the visioning 8 workshops and stakeholder workshops that were held. Just to 9 inform you, we have 17 local associations across California. 10 All of them were invited to participate. We appreciate the 11 work of the staff in reaching out to us as a stakeholder 12 here in the air quality management process. 13 We were able to participate in three of the 14 visioning workshops -- in Glendale, in San Francisco, and 15 finally here in Sacramento. Although I did not personally 16 participate in any of the sessions, the feedback that I've 17 gotten has been extremely positive on a couple of fronts. 18 One is -- and it's been mentioned by others before me -- is 19 the collaborative process, the opportunity for stakeholders 20 and sometimes, very oftentimes, adversaries in the process 21 of air quality management to come together and to listen to 22 one another, to share in an environment that is not so 23 politicized. And I think that's very important. 24 The two findings that I found extremely valuable 25 out of this of the five -- the five top themes -- about PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 33 1 having a scientific basis for the air quality planning 2 process is extremely important. As a health organization 3 and as a scientific-based organization, the American Lung 4 Association has always advocated for health-based air 5 quality standards, and that we use the science that we know 6 in arguing our points before this body, before the U.S. EPA 7 and the Legislature. So, that was a critical point for us. 8 Secondly, the issue about public awareness and 9 public education is one which we find valuable and think 10 that we do need to get the message out more, not only the 11 successes we've been having here in California, but also to 12 the personal responsibility issue that was raised. Because 13 we all know that we can create all the regulations that we 14 want to and have a stack of paper as tall as I, and that's 15 not going to get people out of their cars and reduce their 16 driving and reduce our mobile emissions. 17 So, we want to definitely underscore that point. 18 And on that, we would again welcome the participation of the 19 American Lung Association with the ARB in joint efforts to 20 educate the public, to make them aware of the health 21 concerns around air quality. 22 We appreciate the staff's support and the 23 invitation to participate in this workshop. And frankly, 24 we'd like to see more of them in the future. I think 25 they're very valuable. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 34 1 Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Thank you, Paul. Any 3 questions or comments of Mr. Knepprath? 4 Yes, Ms. Edgerton. 5 MS. EDGERTON: Thank you for coming. 6 You are referring to the priority -- the number 7 one priority, which was reported to us as carry forward 8 clean and strong health -- I mean science-based air program, 9 as carry forward clean and strong health-based air program. 10 Are they one and the same? Is that what was -- is that your 11 understanding that it was health-based? 12 MR. KNEPPRATH: It's my understanding that we use 13 our scientific knowledge and the science-based information 14 we have to create the health-based standards. That's my 15 understanding of that, yeah. 16 MS. EDGERTON: Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you, Paul. 18 I think that's it for the witnesses. There are 19 two letters. Yes, Mr. Calhoun? 20 MR. CALHOUN: Could I have a question I want to -- 21 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Sure. 22 MR. CALHOUN: -- ask of the staff. 23 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Please. 24 MR. CALHOUN: On Wednesday night of last week, I 25 had the choice of listening to the presidential debate or PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 35 1 going to a meeting of the Air and Waste Management 2 Association. 3 Our Executive Officer, Mr. Kenny, was speaking at 4 the Air and Waste Management Association meeting. And I 5 opted to go to the Air and Waste Management Association 6 meeting. And after getting back later on that evening and 7 listening to the presidential debate, I made the right 8 decision. 9 (Laughter.) 10 MR. CALHOUN: But one of the things that came out 11 of the Association meeting was the same thing that has 12 occurred here today, was a need for more emphasis on public 13 awareness. And I just want to mention that to this 14 particular Board. I don't know if Mr. Kenny would care to 15 make any comments in that regard now or not. 16 MR. KENNY: No, I would like to make a comment. 17 But first of all, I thank you for attending. That was 18 actually very helpful. 19 I think basically what you've heard today is 20 something that really needs to be reiterated and probably 21 reemphasized many, many times in the future. The difficulty 22 that we've had, I think historically, is that there's been a 23 perception that air quality management programs are 24 government programs, and really government programs only can 25 achieve the objective that we need to achieve. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 36 1 One of the benefits that has been coming out of 2 these stakeholder visioning workshops is that people really 3 are beginning to understand that there's a partnership 4 necessary to be implemented in the State if we're going to 5 achieve the success we need to achieve. 6 What has been particularly enlightening from the 7 stakeholder workshops is that people are beginning to 8 perceive that. And I think, also, you can look historically 9 over the last month and you can see essentially how this 10 partnership has been very successful in terms of the 11 programs in the State, and that would be the SIP. 12 As we mentioned last month, the SIP really was a 13 partnership of government, industry, and the public all 14 working together to achieve a common objective. I think, as 15 we go forward with what we've learned from the stakeholder 16 workshops, we need to keep that in mind, and also keep in 17 mind the comments that people have made about the fact that 18 we need to continue to do this. 19 It's not a situation in which we've done our 20 stakeholder workshops and we can now stop; we need to 21 continue to go forward. And what we are trying to do is 22 actually go forward. And the way we will do that is, first, 23 we are continuing internally designed methods to make sure 24 that people understand what the message is, what the 25 successes of the program have been, how important those PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 37 1 successes have been, how beneficial they have been, while at 2 the same time making sure that we continue to go out and 3 speak with the public, and get their feedback and their 4 perceptions so that we can blend these two things together 5 and really go forward with a partnership that will achieve 6 the successes that we need. 7 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you, Mr. Kenny. 8 With that, I think that concludes the witnesses. 9 We have two letters that we've received. I think each of 10 the Board members have them. I think we can dispense with 11 running through them, except noting that one's from the 12 American Lung Association, Sacramento-Emigrant Trails, and 13 the other is from Richard Baldwin, Air Pollution Control 14 Officer of Ventura County Air District -- indicated their 15 appreciation and support for this effort. 16 Were there any other letters? Does that wrap it 17 up? 18 MR. SCHONING: A final comment, Mr. Chairman, if I 19 might, along the lines of Mr. Kenny's. Many students of the 20 American system have commented that the Achilles heal of our 21 system is the fact that there is very little in the way of a 22 constituency for thoughtful planning. So, we tend often to 23 go right up against the precipice before we recognize what 24 lies just ahead of us. And one might hope that this effort 25 to organize our stakeholders might produce such a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 38 1 constituency for ourselves in terms of our own planning 2 activities. 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yeah. Well said. Thank you 4 very much, Jim, to you and your team. Dr. Spiesberger, 5 appreciate your efforts, Bruce and Dennis. 6 Two messages, I guess, I would offer up to you. 7 One is, we need more of this first; and secondly, we need to 8 continue to reach out to stakeholders in a variety ways 9 through the regulatory process as outlined in one of the 10 five key issues, but also to make sure that we take -- we 11 pause for a moment and pat ourselves, not just us, but 12 others involved in the fight for clean air, for the good job 13 they've done. Because we have made significant progress. 14 Thank you very much. 15 All right. Let's move to the second item today, 16 96-8-2, public meeting to consider a report on the 17 legislative session and air quality legislation 18 specifically. 19 This agenda item is a presentation by ARB's 20 Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs, Chris 21 Reynolds. Most of you already know Chris. But by way of 22 introduction, Chris was appointed by Governor Wilson to the 23 position of Legislative Director last year. He assumed 24 those responsibilities in July of 1995. 25 He came to the ARB after serving legislators in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 39 1 both houses of the State Legislature -- including five years 2 as a field representative and a legislative assistant to 3 Assemblyman Chuck Quackenbush, who is now the California 4 Insurance Commissioner. 5 Chris is going to provide us with a presentation 6 on what the Legislative Office is, what it does, and 7 hopefully outline some of the successes that he and his team 8 have had. 9 At this point, I'd like to introduce Mr. Kenny, 10 and ask him to kick off this item. 11 Mike? 12 MR. KENNY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of 13 the Board. 14 As you know, everything that the ARB does is in 15 some way tied directly to the legislative authority and 16 statutory responsibility that we've been provided. 17 Consequently, the Legislature has the ability to 18 influence our mission and the progress we make toward 19 fulfilling that mission in profound ways. 20 The person we have at the Air Resources Board who 21 has the primary responsibility for interacting with the 22 Legislature is Chris Reynolds. And what I'd like to do is 23 have Mr. Reynolds give you a rundown on what he is doing 24 with the Legislature and the successes that we have 25 achieved. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 40 1 Chris? 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, 3 thank you for the opportunity to address you today. 4 My hope and my purpose today is to provide you 5 with an understanding of who the Office of Legislative and 6 Intergovernmental Affairs is, what we do, and why we do it. 7 The mission of the Office of Legislative and 8 Intergovernmental Affairs is to maintain continuous 9 persuasive communication with policymakers at all levels of 10 government. Our principal focus is the State Legislature 11 whose members introduce hundreds of bills each legislative 12 session that affect air quality policy, the administration 13 of that policy, and its enforcement. 14 This legislation affects air quality policy at 15 both the State and local level. As the air quality experts 16 and the keeper of the State's clean air plan, we advise the 17 administration on legislation and serve as its spokespeople 18 in legislative negotiations in policy and fiscal committees, 19 and communicate the administration's position to the world 20 at large. 21 It is most instructive to tell you who the Office 22 of Legislative & Intergovernmental Affairs is to provide you 23 with a sense of the dynamics within the office. 24 (Thereupon, photos of the office members 25 were displayed.) PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 41 1 MR. REYNOLDS: Chris Reynolds, the Chief of the 2 Legislative Office. Sheila Marsee is the Chief of the 3 Office of Legislative Affairs. As a graduate of the 4 premiere journalism program in the nation and a former 5 Sacramento correspondent, she possesses extraordinary 6 communication skills. 7 Her extensive experience at the Air Resources 8 Board's Legislative Office serves as an invaluable 9 institutional memory on policy. Her understanding of the 10 legislative process, her management skills, and her 11 understanding of the legislative process has built the 12 office into what it is and keeps it running smoothly. 13 Sheila is the person in the office that we all 14 turn to on a regular basis for advice and counsel. 15 Rob Oglesby, the Chief of the Office of 16 Intergovernmental Affairs, has a wealth of experience with 17 the legislative process. He served previously at the 18 California Trade and Commerce Department and spent several 19 years lobbying for a law firm specializing in bond law. 20 At ARB, Rob specializes in legislation dealing 21 with mobile sources and fuels. This highly technical policy 22 area is not only the ARB's statutory charge, it also 23 generates a great deal of public interest. 24 From zero emission vehicles to cleaner burning 25 gasoline, from diesel fuels to Smog Check II, the lion's PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 42 1 share of our efforts these days is devoted to these issues. 2 Rob's experience, talent, and abilities make him 3 the logical choice to head up our Intergovernmental Affairs 4 Unit and communicate with local officials. 5 Carl Sutkus came to the Legislative Unit via the 6 Office of Air Quality Transportation and Planning. Her 7 private sector and educational experience make her uniquely 8 qualified to analyze consumer product legislation, another 9 area of statutory responsibility for the Air Resources 10 Board. We also depend on Carol to be an expert on planning 11 issues, like the California Environmental Quality Act, on 12 economic analysis, which is a continual topic of discussion 13 in the Legislature, and transportation control measures at 14 the local level. 15 At present, as you can see, we're making due 16 without Carol's talents, because she's on maternity leave 17 after giving birth to her first child, a daughter. 18 Fortunately for us, she'll be back in time to see 19 next year's legislative session get underway in earnest. 20 Kurt Karperos, who's the newest addition to the 21 Legislative Unit, Kurt is an invaluable asset. His private 22 sector and educational background as an engineer and his 23 planning experience provide the Legislative Unit with its 24 own in-house technical expertise. 25 His ability to analyze issues like an engineer and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 43 1 communicate them like a TV news anchor already resulted in a 2 letter of recognition from Governor Wilson that this Board 3 presented to Kurt last year. 4 Ollie Awolowo is the legislative secretary, whose 5 experience -- previous experience in the Legislature ensures 6 that the Legislative Unit never misses a beat. When we need 7 to know where it is, what it is, and who is authoring it, 8 Ollie is the person that we turn to. She is that vital link 9 in the process that keeps us plugged in and our attention 10 turned to what is important. 11 Charlyn Frazier serves as my executive assistant. 12 After having served as a mainstay for not one but both the 13 Chief Deputies of the California Environmental Protection 14 Agency, we were lucky enough to woo Charlyn away to ARB. 15 Charlyn's invaluable private sector experience and her 16 exceptional organization skills have helped me to see the 17 forest for the trees and to keep up with an often demanding 18 schedule. 19 As we have undertaken the new challenges of the 20 Intergovernmental Affairs function, Charlyn has served a 21 central role. 22 Terrel Ferreria is the newest member of the Office 23 of Intergovernmental Affairs. In fact, she is so new that 24 she hasn't started yet. She's packing up her current office 25 to move up to the fifth floor. We're looking forward to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 44 1 having Terrel join us from the Stationary Source Division on 2 a training and development assignment. 3 While serving in the Stationary Source Division, 4 Terrell dealt with a number of high profile assignments. 5 That experience will be a considerable asset to us in this 6 new endeavor. 7 Now that you know who we are, I'd like to provide 8 you with a general sense of what we do. The next few slides 9 are what I will call the uncivic explanation of the 10 legislative process or how a tree swing becomes a law. 11 This tree swing is a graphic illustration of 12 hypothetical legislation as introduced. As you'll notice, 13 it has two seats. This can considered the bargain-down 14 approach to legislation in the hopes of having a seat left 15 when the bill is enacted. 16 This tree swing with its four ropes represents 17 what we popularly refer to as the "friendly amendment." It 18 strengthens the bill, but it doesn't necessarily let you 19 swing any higher. 20 This tree swing represents the potentially hostile 21 amendment to which we reply, "Senator, let me explain what 22 we had in mind." 23 This picture represents the current state of 24 affairs in State funding or the can't-you-do-it-with- 25 existing-resources approach. It's most often encountered in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 45 1 the fiscal committees. 2 This tree swing is demonstrative of the inherent 3 compromises in the legislative process or the, "I had to cut 4 a deal in committee to get the bill out" factor. This may 5 often be mentioned in conjunction with the need for "cleanup 6 legislation." 7 This tree swing represents ARB's attempt to put 8 legislative intent into action, sometimes while awaiting 9 that cleanup legislation. 10 And this view represents our attempt to 11 communicate highly technical issues by sound bite, or the 12 "let me fax you our fact sheet" approach. 13 This self-explanatory image illustrates not only 14 the difficulty in explaining sometimes highly technical 15 issues, but the question we are forced to pose to ourselves 16 at times, "Is anybody out there listening?" 17 And this last slide illustrates the friendly 18 advice from a Cal-EPA sister agency, who would remind us 19 that tires are recyclable, wood fires cause particulate 20 matter. 21 The legislative process is a process of 22 compromising consensus, "the art of the possible," as 23 Winston Churchill once said. But unless there is a basic 24 threshold level of understanding on the issues, good public 25 policy is only a matter of chance. It's a fact we must PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 46 1 confront not only because of our need to make further 2 progress toward clean air, but because ARB programs like 3 cleaner burning gasoline and Smog Check II, for instance, 4 affect millions of motorists who are represented by the 5 Governor, this Board, and the Legislature. 6 This is a democratic institution, and we have a 7 democratic culture. We are accountable to those 32 million 8 Californians affected by these policies. And, as Winston 9 Churchill also said, "Democracy is the worst system of 10 government in the world until you consider all the 11 alternatives." 12 I'd only add that democracy is also the hardest 13 system of government in the world. So, as we seek to ensure 14 accountability, we must confront the challenge. The air 15 quality is a highly technical policy area. Explaining 16 photochemical analysis and polycycical aromatic hydrocarbons 17 can, in the worst case scenario, come across as technobabble 18 and obfuscation. 19 The fact that few people understand the science 20 and fewer have the intestinal fortitude or the time to 21 attempt to grasp it, there's often an information vacuum in 22 which conjecture can become reality. For instance, is the 23 State really going to confiscate vehicles that can't pass 24 Smog Check? 25 The information vacuum extends not only to the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 47 1 general public, but also to the Legislature. Term limits 2 mean new members. And with new members come new staff, 3 which to some extent undermines institutional memory and 4 policy continuity. Along with the term limits and the 1990 5 reapportionment of legislative districts, we have much more 6 competitive districts. 7 Along with competitive districts comes the 8 phenomena of true grass roots campaigning. It is unclear to 9 me whether these trends are mutually exclusive or somehow 10 related. But it is clear that what the folks in the 11 district think has become even more important to the 12 legislators. 13 And I would be remiss if I failed to mention that 14 lobbyists and advocates are acutely aware of this 15 phenomenon. The need for popular support for a position can 16 at times cause advocates to attempt to create a grass roots 17 campaign -- something we refer to as Astroturf campaigns. 18 For those who lean more toward the representative 19 theory of democracy as opposed to the best judgment theory 20 of our system of government, Astroturf campaigns are a 21 disturbing problem. 22 I've already referred several times to the need 23 for outreach. I'd like to offer one concrete example of 24 such an effort -- the cleaner burning gasoline public 25 outreach effort. The Board has heard from several people PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 48 1 today about this effort, probably because it was so highly 2 successful. 3 During last year's interim, while the Legislature 4 was not in session, the ARB Legislative Unit, with 5 invaluable and strong support from the Stationary Source 6 Division, briefed virtually every legislator about the 7 implementation of the cleaner burning gasoline program. 8 We provided detailed information and concise 9 briefings on the principal areas of interest to legislators, 10 the extensive testing program that ARB conducted on the 11 gasoline, the capital and operational costs of producing 12 cleaner burning gasoline, and the potential for those costs 13 to impact price, and certainly not least, the emission 14 reductions we hope to achieve from cleaner burning gasoline. 15 In conjunction with the legislative outreach 16 program, a public education program was instituted, which 17 included visits to most of the State's environmental 18 newspaper reporters and editorial boards and virtually all 19 consumer groups. 20 The goal was simple to state and difficult to 21 achieve -- a small legislative roll-out, buttressed by 22 widespread public and legislative support. Unfortunately, 23 as the Board knows, despite the hundreds of briefings and 24 hundreds of individual followups, this program continues to 25 be a source of continuing education and outreach. There PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 49 1 may, in fact, be a legislative hearing on this program in 2 the interim. December 4th is the tentative date that's been 3 mentioned. 4 The need for outreach beyond the halls of the 5 Capitol is also clear, principally because ARB programs do 6 impact the daily lives of all Californians. Our hope is 7 that the positive impact we have on the daily lives of 8 Californians and the public health is not overlooked. 9 A focal point of outreach efforts in the future 10 will be the Office of Intergovernmental Affairs. Our 11 mission, as you can see, is to build partnerships with local 12 elected officials to enhance opportunities to achieve air 13 quality goals. Our objectives are to gain a deeper 14 appreciation for regional issues while we generate wider 15 support for air quality programs. 16 The invaluable perspective and expertise provided 17 by this Board's locally elected officials shows us that we 18 need to do more to reach out to local government. Also, as 19 I indicated before, the nature of the legislative process 20 and the character of the Legislature is changing. Local 21 concerns are becoming more of a focal point. With term 22 limits, there will inevitably be turnover in the 23 Legislature, which may create additional opportunities for 24 locally elected officials interested in State office. 25 But even without these developments, locally PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 50 1 elected officials are a vital point of contact, because they 2 are policymakers in their own right, and some are chosen by 3 their peers to serve on air district governing boards. 4 The interaction between ARB and these boards -- 5 from constructing our clean air plan to our statutory 6 oversight requirements -- creates a natural link between 7 State and local government. 8 Also, locally elected officials have a right and a 9 need to know about air quality policy. As the first most 10 accessible and most familiar point of contact for many of 11 the State's citizens, locally elected officials deserve our 12 time and attention. 13 But our primary focus must continue to be the 14 State Legislature. Every ARB authority and responsibility 15 is in some way derived from State law. And State lawmakers 16 can profoundly and directly influence air quality policy and 17 its administration. 18 The Air Resources Board's Legislative Unit is the 19 principal resource for the Administration and for the 20 Legislature on air quality related issues. We often serve 21 as the conduit for the transmission of technical expertise 22 while, at the same time, provided policy context in which to 23 view technical issues. 24 ARB technical staff are the finest in the world, 25 but the legislative process is all-consuming. I don't mean PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 51 1 to confuse the issue nor do I intend to be taken literally, 2 but the Legislative Unit has more than a hundred clients -- 3 the Board, the Administration, the Legislature, policymakers 4 at the local and sometimes the Federal level. We attempt to 5 provide a high level of service to all these clients. 6 This schematic, a copy of which the Board members 7 have in their packets, and can be easily found by referring 8 to the purple handout and by referring to this chart, is the 9 true textbook explanation of the legislative process. If it 10 looks like it's confusing, that's because it is in some 11 respects. When you live the process, it becomes a lot more 12 accessible. 13 It's not my intention to attempt to describe to 14 you in great detail a process many of you are familiar with. 15 I would only add that this really is the simple, 16 straightforward explanation. What makes the process truly 17 complex or confusing, if you will, is the human element. 18 Because what this chart represents, when you put into 19 action, is thousands of human interactions -- discussions on 20 intent, perspectives on policy, the efficacy of law, and 21 when it comes right down to it, human behavior. 22 Considering the structure of our government and 23 the complexity of human interactions, and the implications 24 of law that will affect 32 million people, it's a wonder 25 that anything gets done. But, as with most endeavors, what PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 52 1 makes this happen is deadlines. 2 What this slide illustrates is the nine-month 3 schedule that comprises the legislative year. I won't 4 complicate matters by discussing in any more detail interim 5 hearings, or special sessions, or extraordinary sessions. 6 As this chart describes, the Legislature convenes in early 7 January. There's a deadline to put bills in Legislative 8 Counsel form that's not represented here, but that's because 9 the real deadline is the bill introduction deadline. 10 In theory, all bills that will be introduced 11 during the year will be introduced then. There are 12 deadlines for bills to be heard in policy committees, fiscal 13 committees, and deadlines for bills to leave the house of 14 origin, the body in which those bills originated. 15 As you can see, the process accelerates as the 16 year progresses. The only caution here is that these 17 deadlines are established according to the rules of the 18 Legislature. And by a vote of its members, those rules can 19 be waived, forgiven, or ignored. 20 The point is that no bill is ever really dead and 21 virtually no action is ever final. And what this slide 22 attempts to illustrate is our actual workload, the actual 23 workload of the Legislative Office by bill analyses that we 24 prepared last year. 25 There were more than 2300 bills introduced in the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 53 1 1996 calendar year. Remember, that a legislative session 2 lasts two years, and it is possible for a bill introduced in 3 the first year of a session to be carried over to the next 4 year. 5 That fact was particularly relevant last year. 6 Our first task last year was to determine which of those 7 2300 bills that got introduced have an impact on air quality 8 policy -- local, State, Federal, and international. 9 About eight percent or 191 of the bills introduced 10 were bills we tracked. Some of these bills were bills held 11 over from the previous year that were reactivated or amended 12 so that they dealt with air quality policy. 13 This workload does not include the 30 to 40 bills 14 that we researched or analyzed in some fashion because of 15 Administration requests. 16 Maybe the best way to summarize our workload is to 17 say that we prepared 210 detailed analyses on 101 different 18 bills. It's important to remember that in a perfect world, 19 everytime a bill gets amended it would be analyzed. And, in 20 fact, more than 50 percent of our bill load was analyzed at 21 least three times. 22 By looking at this illustration, you can also get 23 a feeling for the pace of the legislative year. As you can 24 see, the pace of analyses tracks crucial milestones in the 25 legislative process. What this chart does not show you are PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 54 1 the other duties as required that are being performed by the 2 Legislative Unit concurrently with this workload. 3 The cleaner burning gasoline legislative outreach 4 program still underway in January of last year, the Board's 5 action on zero-emission vehicle program which generated 6 legislative interest; the budget process, principally the 7 budget subcommittee hearings; responses to legislative 8 interest and actual oversight hearings on gasoline prices; 9 budget change proposals resulting from legislation; interim 10 hearings on air quality related issues; the confirmation 11 process for newly elected Board members, and all regulatory 12 activities this Board undertakes which may generate 13 legislative interest; and the good news, of course, the SIP 14 approval. 15 All these things add up to what it is we do in t 16 he Legislative Unit. I've already discussed in some detail 17 why we do what we do and the nature of changes that affect 18 the way we do it. 19 Grass roots and Astroturf campaigning, the 20 increasingly technical policy arena in which we operate, the 21 growing impact of air quality policies on the daily lives of 22 all Californians. 23 I would only like to emphasize and amplify on two 24 points -- the new media paradigm and term limits. There 25 does seem to be, particularly recently, a new importance PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 55 1 being placed on advocacy in journalism. Certain broadcast 2 journalists have become quasi-lobbyists -- filming the 3 delivery of a compendium of video snippets to staff and 4 legislative offices, asking legislative leaders to view a 5 copy of the same tape and then asking them for a response in 6 a taped interview. 7 Students of journalism may say that this is 8 nothing new; that it has happened before. But what is 9 different about this approach is that these former 10 approaches to news reporting were never so directly focused 11 at legislators in a manner designed to elicit support or 12 opposition, which is very much akin to lobbying. 13 Another recent development in broadcast media 14 that's having a pronounced effect on public policy is talk 15 radio. Talk radio hosts do not lay claim to journalism 16 credentials. They call themselves entertainers. But much 17 of the entertainment they provide has a distinct current 18 events flavor or journalistic flavor to it. 19 I don't want the Board to infer that I'm saying 20 that these developments are good, bad, or indifferent, 21 although I may have my opinions. I only comment on them as 22 a phenomena that are occurring that do affect public policy. 23 By the same token, I believe the Board should hear about 24 another development, the ramifications of which I do not 25 believe have been entirely felt. Again, it's not intended PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 56 1 to be a value judgment; it's only an observation. 2 Term limits will impact the legislative process 3 because, in the future, at least one-third of all 4 legislators will be freshmen. Next year, there will be 29 5 Assembly members and 11 Senators who will not be returning. 6 There will be some movement from one house to the next, so 7 not all members will be true freshmen. This will ultimately 8 impact institutional memory and policy expertise. 9 For instance, grasping the process and the policy, 10 the education of a legislator is a continuum. What this 11 chart illustrates is that among the current members of the 12 Natural Resources Committee, that Committee in the 13 Legislature which most often hears the air quality bills, 14 only Assemblymen Richter, if he is reelected, will have more 15 than two years of legislative experience. 16 At the other end of the experience spectrum, four 17 of the seats now held by members of that committee are open 18 seats, seats without an incumbent. I've already mentioned 19 several times the highly technical nature of air quality 20 issues and the fact that the policy that results from the 21 science of air quality is also complex. 22 Because term limits mean new members and new 23 staff, the potential for term limits to erode institutional 24 memory and understanding may be more acutely felt in this 25 policy arena. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 57 1 I appreciate the Board's interest in the efforts 2 of the Legislative Unit. I just want to draw your attention 3 to one last prop. (Displaying a cart piled with binders and 4 documents) I brought with me today a compilation of all the 5 versions of the bills we tracked this year, a copy of the 6 State budget, and some of the educational materials that 7 we've used in numerous legislative briefings. 8 These are the tools of our trade. They're a 9 little unwieldy at times, but they're our burden to carry. 10 If the Board has any questions, I'd be happy to 11 answer them now or at some future time. 12 MR. PARNELL: I just want to make an observation. 13 And for those of you who haven't been involved in a policy 14 discussion with Chris, you should avail yourself of the 15 opportunity. Because he's not only very good at what he 16 does, he clearly is an asset to this Board and has moved it 17 in the correct direction by a great margin. 18 And I thank you, Chris, not only for the 19 presentation, but just for your presence and your indeed 20 very competent and careful staff. 21 MR. REYNOLDS: The check's in the mail. Thank 22 you. 23 (Laughter.) 24 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thanks for that, Jack. Any 25 other questions, comments? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 58 1 Supervisor Riordan? 2 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: A question. You know, you 3 keep track of all these things that are happening here in 4 Sacramento and the State of California. Do you have some 5 organization that's watching what's happening in Washington, 6 D.C.? 7 MR. REYNOLDS: We do. The Air Resources Board and 8 its technical experts are called upon often to comment on 9 things taking place at the Federal level, specifically by 10 Governor Wilson's Washington, D.C. office. 11 So, they have representatives there who are 12 tracking what's happening at the Federal level. But I don't 13 want to leave the mistaken impression that somehow the Air 14 Resources Board isn't keeping an eye on what's going on 15 there. 16 Often, the specific request comes in because the 17 Administration has a specific interest in something 18 particular. The technical experts here are continually 19 keeping track of what's going on in Washington, D.C. We do 20 not serve in a principal role; although we do become 21 involved at times, we don't serve in that principal role. 22 It's the Washington, D.C. office for the Governor. 23 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Ms. Edgerton. 25 MS. EDGERTON: Just from looking around at some of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 59 1 the Board members, as you put up the one-third new each year 2 slide -- legislators new each year -- I wondered, obviously, 3 the fact that you identified it and that everyone's aware of 4 the challenge came through, have you a specific 5 recommendation or strategy for trying to educate the new 6 members early on? 7 MR. REYNOLDS: That would be my highest 8 aspiration, we'd be able to get to every single member of 9 the Legislature and to give them a briefing on air quality 10 issues, because they are so technical, and they are so darn 11 important. 12 We just simply can't do that. What we have been 13 trying to do is to use the cleaner burning gasoline outreach 14 program, which I'm certainly not going to take any credit 15 for. I came along at a time when the program was already -- 16 had already been put in place by the technical staff and 17 members of the Legislative Unit that were here before I got 18 here. And it's a great program. And it was very effective 19 and it did its job. 20 But I think that the point that shouldn't be lost 21 is that what the one-third new members turning over, it's 22 got to be -- there's got to be a continuation of that 23 effort. 24 Now, considering the resources that were put to 25 that effort, that the people in the Stationary Source PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 60 1 Division, and Mr. Scheible, and others who devoted a lot of 2 time and attention to this -- and continue to devote a lot 3 of time and attention to it -- we're going to have to pick 4 our spots in terms of education, unfortunately. 5 I've done my best to try to at least let some of 6 the staff know about some of the issues that are critical, 7 that are upcoming -- the need for a particulate matter plan, 8 the potential for a new Federal standard, the issue of 9 diesel toxicity, since that will undoubtedly be something 10 that a lot of people will talk about. 11 I've tried to get them ahead of the curve. 12 Unfortunately, we're still kind of working on last year's 13 news unfortunately. Gasoline continues to be a point where 14 we need to continue to educate people. The smog check 15 program is an area where we're going to need to continue to 16 educate people to the best of our ability. 17 So, if the question is, would I like to do it, the 18 answer is, absolutely. Do I think it's crucial? 19 Absolutely. But do I think that we can really get it done? 20 I'm not so sure. 21 We're going to try, though. 22 MS. EDGERTON: Well, Mr. Chairman, I'd be glad to 23 help with that if you need another person to make a couple 24 of trips. 25 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Chris is being particularly PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 61 1 diplomatic in response to that last question. But I guess I 2 would paraphrase it a little differently, Lynne, in that he 3 needs a door opening issue where he can go in and talk to 4 them about a current event, so to speak, on clean air, and 5 then use that to develop a relationship and talk about other 6 issues that are important to the Board. 7 And that's what cleaner burning gasoline provided. 8 Okay. Any other questions or comments? 9 Mr. Kenny, do you have anything to add? 10 MR. KENNY: No, I don't. 11 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Chris, I appreciate very 12 much your homespun presentation, particularly at the 13 beginning, but also appreciated the detail which you 14 provided. And it is important for the Board to get familiar 15 with the staff people that actually are out there dealing 16 with the members of the Legislature, because they are, you 17 know, our advocates on these issues and our eyes and ears 18 with them. 19 MR. REYNOLDS: If you wouldn't mind, Mr. Chairman, 20 I'll take that segue as an opportunity to direct some 21 attention to Sheila Marsee, Kurt Karperos, and Rob Oglesby 22 from the Legislative Unit, who are here. Charlyn was 23 helping me with the slide presentation. 24 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: And when you were showing Carol 25 Sutkus' desk, did you explain that she's on maternity leave? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 62 1 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: Yes. 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, she is. 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Very good. 4 MR. REYNOLDS: She's just recently given birth to 5 her first child, a daughter, Lauren. And we hope to have 6 her back very soon. 7 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Great. Thank you. Well done. 8 All right. Let's move on. We have two items 9 remaining. We have had no witnesses sign, so that's why we 10 can move quickly into the other issue. 11 All right. The next item on the agenda today is 12 96-8-3, a public hearing to consider amending the test 13 methods designated to measure the concentrations of total 14 aromatic hydrocarbons, polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, 15 nitrogen, and sulfur content in and distillation of 16 California commercial certification diesel fuels. 17 These test methods are used to determine if 18 parties selling diesel fuel in California comply with State 19 regulations. At this point, I'd like to ask Mr. Kenny to 20 introduce the item and begin the staff's presentation. 21 Mike? 22 MR. KENNY: Thank you, Chairman Dunlap and members 23 of the Board. 24 The Air Resources Board approved the diesel fuel 25 regulations in November of 1988. They became applicable on PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 63 1 October 1st, 1993, setting maximum limits for total aromatic 2 hydrocarbons and sulfur content in commercial diesel fuel. 3 The regulation provides that when refiners sell a batch of 4 diesel fuel as a certified alternative diesel fuel 5 formulation, that must meet formulation specific limits for 6 total aromatic hydrocarbons, polynuclear aromatic 7 hydrocarbons, nitrogen, sulfur, and cetane number. 8 The regulation specifies the test methods to be 9 used in determining each of these properties. During the 10 method adoption process, it was recognized that improvements 11 in precision, ease of use, analysis time, and increased 12 automation were desirable. As a result, ARB committed to 13 working with industry to develop new and improved test 14 methods as technology advanced. 15 The proposal being presented for consideration 16 today is the result of a cooperative effort between Board 17 staff, affected industry, and instrument manufacturers. 18 Staff is therefore proposing the adoption of a new or 19 updated test method for the measurement of the commercial 20 and certification diesel fuel parameters. 21 I would now like to ask Ms. Annette Hebert of the 22 Monitoring and Laboratory Division to give a staff 23 presentation. 24 MS. HEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Kenny. 25 Good morning, Chairman Dunlap and members of the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 64 1 Board. We're here to consider a proposal to amend the test 2 methods designated for determining the total aromatic 3 hydrocarbon, polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbon, nitrogen, and 4 sulfur content in and distillation temperatures of 5 California commercial and certification diesel fuels. 6 Before we discuss this proposal, I will provide 7 background information on the commercial diesel fuel 8 regulations and the sampling process used in the field. 9 The diesel fuel regulations, including the test 10 methods, were first adopted in December of 1988 with an 11 effective date of October 1st, 1993. Producers or importers 12 have one of three options. One, meeting maximum limits for 13 sulfur and total aromatics; two, meeting designated 14 alternative limits for total aromatics; or, three, apply for 15 approval of a certified diesel fuel formation that results 16 in equivalent emission reductions. 17 Meeting the 500 parts per million sulfur limit is 18 mandatory, while the total aromatic limit an be flexible per 19 the last two options. 20 Designated alternative limits allow the offsetting 21 of higher total aromatics in batches of diesel fuel as long 22 as sufficient quantities of diesel fuel with lower 23 designated alternative limits are sold to offset the higher 24 blends. 25 The total aromatic limit could also be waived when PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 65 1 alternate diesel fuel formulations are certified. 2 Certification is attained through a test program inn which 3 the result is no greater motor vehicle emissions than diesel 4 fuel meeting the 10 or 20 volume percent limit. ARB 5 inspectors keep track of which options are being used at 6 different locations. 7 When obtaining samples to confirm compliance with 8 the regulations, extreme care and good judgment are 9 necessary. This ensures that samples obtained represent the 10 general character and average condition of the material. To 11 maintain the integrity of the sample, it is collected and 12 preserved according to the procedures outlined in the 13 California Code of Regulations, Title 13, Section 2296. 14 ARB inspectors receive special training in the 15 procedures of sample collecting. The field inspectors 16 travel throughout the State twice a month to obtain samples 17 for enforcement inspections. 18 Samples may be collected through nozzles at 19 distribution facilities, such as this fueling station, or 20 from storage tanks located at terminals and refineries. The 21 samples are properly maintained by the inspectors until they 22 can be analyzed. 23 After the samples are collected in the field, they 24 are taken to the ARB's mobile fuels laboratory. The bus, as 25 we refer to it, is equipped with instrumentation to measure PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 66 1 various parameters in both gasoline and diesel fuels. 2 As you can see, when both gasoline and diesel 3 samples are undergoing analysis, the bus can house up to 4 five chemists at one time, each of whom carry out a separate 5 fuel component analysis. 6 Diesel fuel samples may be transported back to the 7 ARB's El Monte laboratory for further analysis. 8 I will now ask Mrs. Linda Rabano to cover the 9 proposal which focuses on updating the test methods used for 10 diesel fuel. 11 MS. RABANO: Thank you, Ms. Hebert. 12 To confirm compliance with the commercial fuel 13 specifications, ARB as well as industry must use the test 14 methods designated in the regulations when reporting 15 component values. 16 Outlined are the adopted and proposed methods for 17 total aromatic hydrocarbons, polynuclear aromatic 18 hydrocarbons, nitrogen, sulfur, and distillation 19 temperatures. 20 In addition to the test methods for commercial 21 fuel requirements, test methods are also listed for 22 determining the properties of certification diesel fuel used 23 in the motor vehicle emission test procedures. 24 All methods beginning with the letter D are 25 American Society of Testing and Material, or ASTM, test PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 67 1 methods. 2 The year in which the test method was approved or 3 amended is given by the last two digits following the dash 4 extension. For example, in the method designated for 5 sulfur, D2622 is the test method number, while -82 is the 6 year of adoption. 7 For the determination of total aromatic 8 hydrocarbons in commercial and certification diesel fuels, 9 staff is proposing to replace D1319-84, a fluorescent 10 indicator adsorption method, with D5186-96, a supercritical 11 fluid chromatographic technique. 12 Staff's initial proposal, D5186-9X, was the draft 13 method. Recently, ASTM approved and published the final 14 version. Consequently, staff is now proposing adoption of 15 D5186-96. The possibility of the update was mentioned in 16 the staff's report. However, a posthearing notice will be 17 mailed to all interested parties notifying them of the 18 recommended change. 19 Exhibited is a fluorescent indicator adsorption, 20 or FIA setup. This illustrates test method D1319-84, the 21 method we are proposing to replace. The vertical glass 22 columns shown here contain silica gel with a mixture of 23 fluorescent dyes. 24 First, the sample is placed on top of the column. 25 Then, solvent is passed through the sample. As the solvent PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 68 1 and sample flow down the column, the nonaromatic and 2 aromatic fractions are separated. As the dyes and 3 hydrocarbons mix, their boundaries are visible with the 4 naked eye under an ultraviolet method (sic). 5 The technician then measures the different zone 6 boundaries. And finally, the volume percent of each 7 hydrocarbon type is calculated from the length of each 8 colored zone. The boundaries are not always clearly 9 defined, particularly when colored diesel samples are 10 analyzed. 11 Since a technician measures these boundaries, this 12 method can be subject to more operator error. This can be 13 significant, since we are interested in the total aromatic 14 fraction of diesel fuel. 15 The supercritical fluid chromatograph, or SFC, is 16 our proposed replacement method. According to D5186, the 17 SFC can be used to analyze total and polynuclear aromatic 18 hydrocarbons in diesel fuels. At the request of industry, 19 an equivalency was granted to the SFC method inn 1992. It 20 has been in use by both the ARB and industry since the 1993 21 diesel regulatory implementation. 22 An autosampler injects a small amount of the 23 diesel sample into a column, which is located inside the 24 oven. As liquid carbon dioxide passes through the column, 25 the nonaromatic, monoaromatic, and polynuclear aromatic PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 69 1 hydrocarbons are separated. 2 These separated components are then quantified 3 using a flame ionization detector. Total aromatics, as well 4 as polynuclear aromatics can be reported from the results. 5 ASTM interlaboratory testing has shown that D55186 6 is a more precise method than D1319. 7 For the determination of polynuclear aromatic 8 hydrocarbons, or PNAs, the SFC technique would also replace 9 D2425-83, a mass spectrometric method. Note that the same 10 method is proposed for both total and polynuclear aromatic 11 hydrocarbons. 12 In summary, D5186, or the SFC technique, is a more 13 practical method for the aromatics, because it has a shorter 14 and analysis time; it is not as labor intensive. It can be 15 automated, and it can determine both total and polynuclear 16 aromatic hydrocarbons. Additionally, D5186 is more precise 17 than D1319. 18 The three remaining proposed test method changes 19 are for sulfur and nitrogen contents and distillation 20 temperatures. Each have the same ASTM numbers as originally 21 adopted. However, the proposed methods are updated versions 22 of the adopted methods as shown by the year designations. 23 This X-ray spectrometer is housed in the mobile 24 fuels laboratory and is used to measure the amount of sulfur 25 present in gasoline and diesel fuels by D2622. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 70 1 The proposed test method D2622-94 is an update of 2 the adopted method D2622-82. There have been some 3 improvements in the parts used in the X-ray instrumentation. 4 A nitrogen analyzer is used in the determination 5 of nitrogen content of diesel fuels as required in test 6 method D4629. 7 Nitrogen must be determined and reported for a 8 candidate fuel when certifying an alternate diesel fuel 9 formulation. It is also listed in the reference and 10 certification fuel specifications. 11 The proposed and currently adopted methods are 12 similar, except for some minor editorial changes. 13 This is an automatic distillation apparatus 14 located in the Compliance Division mobile fuels laboratory. 15 The ARB's El Monte laboratory is equipped with a manual 16 distillation apparatus. 17 Both the automatic and manual apparatus can be 18 used to determine distillation temperatures of gasoline and 19 diesel fuels. The proposed method is an update of the 20 adopted method containing extensive editorial changes. The 21 precision is the same in both the adopted and proposed test 22 methods. 23 Since there are no changes in the regulatory 24 standards, staff has not identified any air quality or 25 environmental impacts. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 71 1 The economic impact is expected to be minimal, 2 since most refineries have the SFC instrumentation for 3 determining total and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, and 4 the updated methods for nitrogen, sulfur, and distillation 5 temperatures require little or no change in instrumentation. 6 In summary, the test method changes proposed 7 provide improvements in precision, ease of use, analysis 8 time, and automation. The staff, therefore, recommends that 9 the Board adopt the proposed test method changes for 10 California commercial and certification diesel fuels. 11 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: Let me thank the staff and 12 ask our Ombudsman to make his report. 13 MR. SCHONING: Thank you, Madam Chair. It appears 14 that staff did an excellent job of reaching out to all 15 appropriate stakeholders and affected parties as they 16 indicated -- the Western States Petroleum Association, 17 manufacturers, independent petroleum producers, engine 18 manufacturers, and instrument manufacturers, the California 19 Trucking Association, and the appropriate technical and 20 inspection representatives of State and local government 21 agencies. 22 The staff also workshopped the proposal you have 23 before you in an inclusive and effective manner. 24 During the development of the proposed methods, 25 the American Society for Testing and Materials, ASTM, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 72 1 Subcommittee DO2, which is responsible for diesel fuel test 2 methods, met six times between June of 1992 and this year. 3 And the Western States Petroleum Association/ARB test 4 procedures working group met eight times between July of 5 1994 and June of this year. 6 In addition to working with ASTM and WSPA, Arb 7 staff also held three public workshops, one on April 5, 8 1995; one on September 21, 1995; and one March 19 of this 9 year, where approximately 500 interested parties were 10 noticed. And it was attended by members of the oil 11 industry, instrument manufacturers, and other interest 12 parties. 13 Comments and questions raised at the workshops 14 were addressed in the development of the proposed methods, 15 and additional comments were solicited through an August 16 28th letter to all interested parties, including auto 17 manufacturers, to ensure that everyone was informed of any 18 additional changes that occurred since the last workshop in 19 March. 20 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Schoning. 21 Any questions of staff before we go into our sole witness? 22 Okay. Mr. Calhoun. 23 MR. CALHOUN: Yes. I have one question I'd like 24 to ask. One of the statements made in the staff report says 25 something to the effect that the regulation on the aromatic PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 73 1 hydrocarbon content allow refiners to comply by selling a 2 alternative diesel fuel formulation that as an aromatic 3 hydrocarbon content greater than the basic aromatic 4 hydrocarbon limit if the alternative formulation has been 5 shown to result in equivalent emission. 6 What do you mean by that? 7 MR. SIMEROTH: Mr. Calhoun, Dean Simeroth, staff. 8 Maybe I can help address that. What we mean is that through 9 testing of a reference fuel diesel fuel at 10 percent 10 aromatics compared to the candidate fuel in an engine, using 11 a randomized approach, so you don't have a bias in the 12 engine you're building up. 13 The data from that is then compared. We look at 14 three criteria -- the oxides of nitrogen emissions, the 15 total particulate matter that can be adjusted for the 16 sulfate contribution, and the soluble organic fraction of 17 the particulate matter. It has to pass all three criteria 18 before it can be accepted as an alternative formulation. 19 MR. CALHOUN: I know in the case of cleaner 20 burning gasoline, reactivity -- the refiners can market a 21 product that is different from the specifications, but 22 that's based on reactivity. And what I've been trying to 23 figure out, since I read this initially, what is the major 24 criterion that you use as a basis for the determination? 25 MR. SIMEROTH: The equivalent performance in the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 74 1 engine in terms of producing oxides of nitrogen emissions 2 and particulate matter emissions is the criterion. They 3 have to give the same performance for those two pollutants. 4 MR. JENNINGS: If I might add, Member Calhoun, the 5 cleaner burning gasoline regulations provide a couple of 6 avenues for using alternative formulations. One is the 7 predictive model which looks at both reactivity based 8 hydrocarbons, I believe, plus NOx emissions, hydrocarbon 9 emissions, and toxic emissions. And then we have a vehicle 10 test program which is more akin to the engine test program 11 we have in the diesel regulation. It's a somewhat expensive 12 process and all refiners to date have chosen to go the 13 predictive model route rather than the vehicle testing 14 route. 15 MR. SCHEIBLE: But the criteria under both 16 programs are essentially the same. You produce a fuel that 17 complies with the specifications, and you get an emissions 18 result, emissions reduction. 19 If you want to produce an alternative formulation, 20 it's formulated to produce the same or better emission 21 results. 22 So, for the diesel program, which reduces NOx and 23 particulate matter, those are the two criteria. For the 24 cleaning burning gas, you look at hydrocarbons, and toxics, 25 and NOx emission reductions principally. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 75 1 MR. CALHOUN: So, it's particulate matter and -- 2 MR. SCHEIBLE: And oxides of nitrogen are the two 3 things -- two major reduction components because of the 4 cleaner diesel, and if you produce an alternative 5 formulation that achieves the same results as your complying 6 formulation, then that's legal for you to market and sell. 7 Most refiners have done that for many of their 8 blends. And so, they are producing not the 10 percent 9 aromatic limit, but to some higher aromatic limit where 10 they've lowered sulfur, added cetane, controlled the 11 nitrogen, controlled the polynuclear aromatics to other 12 degrees. And we go out and we collect their samples and 13 make sure that they meet that alternative formulation. 14 MR. CALHOUN: All right. Thank you. 15 MR. SCHEIBLE: But the effect on the environment 16 is the same or, in many cases, somewhat better because when 17 you match, you have to do as good as or better for both 18 pollutants. And usually, you do better for one. 19 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: But the analysis has to bear 20 that it is as solid at reductions. 21 MR. SCHEIBLE: Well, it has a fairly rigorous to 22 go through to establish that the fuel performs as well as -- 23 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Right. Okay. 24 MR. SCHEIBLE: -- the fuel you're replacing, the 25 complying fuel. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 76 1 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. All right. Any other 2 questions of staff on this before we get into the witnesses? 3 Okay. Let's call the first witness, Aeron Arlin 4 from the Western States Petroleum Association. 5 MS. ARLIN: Good morning. My name is Aeron Arlin. 6 I'm an environmental coordinator for Western States 7 Petroleum, and I also staff WSPA's test procedures task 8 force which meets regularly with ARB staff. 9 I will be making my comments very brief today. To 10 begin with, I'd first like to voice an appreciation for the 11 continuous open communication and interaction WSPA has had 12 with ARB staff. Through this cooperative activity in 13 identifying, developing, and analyzing improved test methods 14 for gasoline and diesel, WSPA has been able to reach a 15 position of full support for CARB's adoption of the test 16 methods before you today. 17 The only remaining issue we have pertains to test 18 method amendments that impact regulations for the 19 specifications of low aromatic certification diesel fuel. 20 When the ARB adopts new test methods for total aromatics, 21 distillation, sulfur, or nitrogen, it doesn't stipulate in 22 the regulation whether or not recertification of diesel fuel 23 formulations will be required. 24 We strongly believe recertification is not 25 required by these changes, but we would like confirmation PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 77 1 from ARB that these changes will not affect prior 2 certification of diesel fuel formulations. 3 That concludes my comments. Once again, I'd like 4 to thank you for ARB's cooperation. If there are any 5 questions, I'd be happy to answer them. 6 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yes, and I think I heard Mr. 7 Schoning's commentary there were some eight-plus meetings 8 with WSPA directly on this issue. 9 What of this prior certification matter, Staff? 10 MR. SCHEIBLE: All the existing certifications 11 stand. 12 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. 13 MR. SCHEIBLE: We just use the new test methods to 14 determine the fuel properties, not to reinvestigate 15 certification. 16 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Ms. Arlin, does that 17 satisfy your concerns? 18 MS. ARLIN: Will it be written anywhere? Will 19 that be clarified in any type of written communication? 20 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Well, I can assure you that the 21 court reporter got that down. 22 MS. ARLIN: Good. Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: And there's a transcript request 24 you might want to make. 25 MS. ARLIN: All right. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 78 1 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: I think that should suffice. 2 MS. ARLIN: All right. Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. Thank you for your 4 time. 5 All right. Any others wish to comment on this 6 item? All right. Then we'll close the public testimony 7 portion of this item. 8 I'd like staff at this juncture to take a moment 9 and summarize any letters, correspondence we may have 10 received on this regulatory item. 11 MS. HEBERT: Yes, Mr. Chairman. We did receive a 12 comment letter from Western States Petroleum Association 13 indicating exactly what she just said. So, that about 14 covers the comments. 15 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. 16 MS. HEBERT: And we also received a letter from 76 17 Products Company, which also gives full support for adoption 18 of these test method changes, and appreciation for staff in 19 working with them. 20 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Mr. Kenny, do you have 21 anything to add? 22 MR. KENNY: The only closing comments I'd have 23 would be that the staff's proposals are based on the ASTM 24 methods. And so, we would therefore recommend adoption. 25 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Very good. All right. I PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 79 1 will now close the record on this agenda item; however, the 2 record will be reopened when the 15-day notice of public 3 availability is issued. 4 Written or oral comments received after this 5 hearing date but before the 15-day notice is issued will not 6 be accepted as part of the official record on this agenda 7 item. When the record is reopened for a 15-day comment 8 period, the public may submit written comments on the 9 proposed changes, which will be considered and responded to 10 in the final statement of reasons for the regulation. 11 Just a reminder again on ex parte communications. 12 It's okay for the Board members to have such contact on 13 items that have been noticed for regulatory consideration or 14 rulemaking, but we must disclose the names of those contacts 15 we've had and the nature of those contacts on the record. 16 Is there anything we need to report on ex parte 17 communication? 18 All right. Very good. We have before us a 19 resolution, 96-54, that we've had for a few minutes. And 20 after my Board member colleagues have had a moment to review 21 it, I would certainly entertain a motion to support this 22 resolution. 23 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: I would so move, Mr. 24 Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Thank you, Supervisor Riordan. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 80 1 Is there a second, Mr. Parnell? 2 MR. PARNELL: Support. 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. Very good. We have 4 a motion and a second. Any discussion we need to have on 5 the specifics? 6 All right. Why don't we do a voice vote. 7 All those in favor, say aye? 8 (Ayes.) 9 Any opposed? Thank you. Motion carries. 10 Thank you, staff. 11 All right. Let's move to the last item on the 12 agenda today. Mr. Loscutoff, I appreciate you bringing 13 forward this item in a manner that we could understand and 14 grapple with. I know it was exceedingly complex. 15 MR. LOSCUTOFF: You're welcome. 16 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. 96-8-4, our final 17 item today, is a public meeting to consider a creation of a 18 committee of the Board to review the decision of the 19 Executive Officer to order the recall of motor vehicles and 20 to appoint the members of the committee. 21 This item comes before the Board for the limited 22 purpose of considering a staff proposal to create a 23 committee of the Board to review the decision of the 24 Executive Officer to order the recall of an engine family 25 manufactured by General Motors. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 81 1 The matter on the agenda for today is a narrow 2 procedural issue and will not involve any discussion of the 3 merits of the case. 4 At this point, I'd like to ask Mr. Kenny to 5 introduce the item and begin the staff's presentation. 6 MR. KENNY: Because this item is primarily 7 procedural and is legal in nature, I'm going to refer to Ms. 8 Walsh to go through it. 9 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Good morning, Ms. Walsh. 10 MS. WALSH: Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Kenny. 11 Chairman Dunlap and members of the Board, on August 7th, the 12 Executive Officer of the Air Resources Board issued a recall 13 order for vehicles in an engine family certified for sale in 14 California by General Motors Corporation. 15 A revised recall order was issued August 15th. 16 Under the Board's in-use recall and adjudicatory hearing 17 regulations, a manufacturer subject to a recall order may 18 request a hearing to contest the Executive Officer's 19 decision to issue the recall order by submitting a petition 20 or a request for a hearing to the Clerk of the Board. 21 That petition has to be submitted within 30 days 22 of receipt of the recall order. 23 The Executive Officer must file a response to the 24 petition for a hearing within 15 working days, and that 25 response was filed yesterday. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 82 1 In this matter, General Motors did file a petition 2 for hearing on October 2nd. And, as I indicated, a response 3 has been filed to that petition. Under the regulations, a 4 hearing in this matter must be initiated on or before 5 December 6th, 1996; however, the hearing date may be 6 extended under certain circumstances and, in fact, we expect 7 those circumstances to apply in this case. 8 The Board's adjudicatory hearing procedures 9 provide that the Board may hear this matter itself. 10 Alternatively, the Board may appoint or create a committee 11 of not less than three Board members to hear the matter, or 12 request that an administrative law judge, or an ALJ, from 13 the Office of Administrative Hearings in the Department of 14 General Services conduct the hearing on behalf of the Board. 15 If the matter is heard by the full Board or a 16 committee of the Board, that hearing panel may also request 17 that an ALJ be appointed to assist in the conduct of a 18 hearing and to advise on the admission or exclusion of 19 evidence and other matters of law. 20 At the conclusion of the hearing, or if the matter 21 is being heard by a panel or a committee of the Board, or an 22 ALJ, after consideration of a recommended decision by the 23 committee or the ALJ, the full Board must issue a written 24 decision in the matter. 25 Staff anticipates that a significant amount of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 83 1 documentary evidence and oral testimony will be presented at 2 the hearing for this matter, and that this matter is likely 3 to involve complex issues of fact and law. Therefore, the 4 staff is recommending that the Board create a committee of 5 three members to act as the hearing panel for this matter. 6 We're further recommending that the Board request 7 the appointment of an ALJ from the Office of Administrative 8 Hearings to assist in the conduct of the hearing and for the 9 other purposes provided for by the regulations. 10 Because neither of the parties is yet in a 11 position to estimate within any degree of accuracy the 12 amount of time that will be needed to complete the hearing 13 of this matter, or the necessity for prehearing meetings or 14 conferences, staff is further recommending that the Board 15 approve an interim committee selection process as follows: 16 Under this process, Chairman Dunlap would be 17 designated as the interim presiding officer for purposes of 18 the recall hearing. As the interim presiding officer, the 19 Chairman would initiate the request for an ALJ to the Office 20 of Administrative Hearings. 21 Pending appointment of the ALJ, a member of the 22 Air Resources Board's legal staff who has not and will not 23 be representing staff in this matter would serve as an 24 advisor to the interim presiding officer. 25 The Chairman, again in his role as an interim PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 84 1 presiding officer, would conduct a prehearing conference 2 with both of the parties as soon as possible to take 3 appropriate reaction -- excuse me -- appropriate action to 4 set up the organization of the recall hearing. 5 The primary purpose of this prehearing conference 6 or meeting would be to establish and implement a process for 7 the selection of the three members -- Board members to serve 8 on the committee, and defining the respective roles of the 9 committee members and the ALJ. 10 Once the committee selection process has been 11 established, the interim presiding officer would -- again as 12 soon as possible -- appoint the three members of the 13 committee and take other action, as appropriate, if less 14 than three members are available to serve in that capacity. 15 At that time, as provided for in the adjudicatory 16 hearing regulations, the Chairman could designate either one 17 of the members of the Committee or the ALJ to act as the 18 permanent presiding officer for the recall hearing. 19 This, then, concludes my presentation for this 20 morning. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have 21 about this matter, but I'm going to reiterate the point made 22 both by Chairman Dunlap and Mr. Kenny, which is that we are 23 really considering simply this procedural matter -- 24 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Right. 25 MS. WALSH: -- this morning, and will not be PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 85 1 addressing the merits of the case. 2 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. This, I believe, Ms. 3 Walsh, is the first time the Board has been confronted with 4 a situation quite like this regarding a recall, correct? 5 MS. WALSH: That's correct. 6 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. So, we're treading on new 7 ground here. All right. I'd be happy to entertain some 8 questions, but I'd like to hear from the General Motors 9 representative that signed up to testify. 10 Timothy McCann from General Motors legal staff. 11 Good morning. 12 MR. McCANN: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Good 13 morning, Board members, and ladies and gentlemen in 14 attendance today. 15 Basically, I'm here to represent General Motors 16 Corporation. My name is Timothy McCann. I'm an attorney 17 with General Motors legal staff in their environmental and 18 energy practice area. And we are here today to testify 19 about the proposal on the agenda. 20 Basically, over the last ten days or so, I've been 21 in contact with Ms. Walsh discussing various aspects of the 22 particular agenda item. And she was kind enough yesterday 23 to give me a letter, which basically outlines the 24 presentation that she made here this morning. 25 For your convenience, I've had circulated to you a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 86 1 copy of that letter, and it will also be included in the 2 record. Basically, General Motors is prepared to work with 3 the staff to implement the process for structuring an XEB2 4 hearing as outlined by Ms. Walsh in her discussion this 5 morning and in the letter. If you have any questions, I'd 6 be happy to answer them. 7 I understand that it's based on -- any questions 8 would be procedural in nature. And really, I don't want to 9 get into that type of thing. 10 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. That would be fine. 11 MR. McCANN: That would conclude my comments and 12 thank you for your time. 13 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. Let me maybe kick 14 off, if we have any questions or comments, just to say this: 15 I think I speak for my Board member colleagues. We have 16 great respect for General Motors and the achievements that 17 they've made in the emission reductions area, particularly 18 in working with us of late on the EV1. And we want to do 19 everything we can to be very upfront about this process. 20 And we intend to do that and work very closely with the 21 legal teams from both organizations to make sure what we do 22 is in concert with what not only the law provides, but with 23 our high operating principles that we adhere to here. 24 So, are there any comments or questions? Yes, 25 Dr. Boston. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 87 1 DR. BOSTON: Ms. Walsh, could you answer a 2 procedural question for me? If an ALJ were to be selected 3 alone to hear this -- this case, what happens at the end of 4 that hearing? Does that then come back to the Board to 5 decide what his determination was and how it should be 6 administered, or is that conclusive? 7 Is his decision then conclusive or -- 8 MS. WALSH: No. That decision is not conclusive. 9 The adjudicatory hearing regulations provide that if an ALJ 10 were to hear the matter -- and this is similar with a panel 11 of Board members as well -- that a recommended decision 12 would be issued. That would come to the full Board, and you 13 would make the final decision to either accept that 14 recommended decision or to take some other action as you 15 deem appropriate. 16 DR. BOSTON: I see. Okay. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. Mr. Parnell. 18 MR. PARNELL: If I wander off the reservation -- I 19 guess we are to assume since what's at issue here are 20 statements of fact, which then begs for technical expertise 21 to be able to determine which of those facts are valid or 22 which are not, it seems to me that -- then that technical 23 people within the staff, technical people within General 24 Motors -- I guess my question comes to: Have we done 25 everything we can do this side of a hearing to resolve the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 88 1 issue? 2 I guess the answer to that is yes? 3 MR. KENNY: Mr. Parnell, we have actually tried to 4 have a number of discussions with General Motors in order to 5 try to resolve this, and we will continue those discussions. 6 But the general answer to your question is, yes, we have and 7 are trying everything we can to resolve this short of a 8 hearing. 9 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Mr. McCann, would you -- do you 10 want to comment on that? 11 MR. McCANN: I echo what Mr. Kenny has said. 12 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. All right. Very good. 13 If there's no other questions on this point, let 14 me tell you what I would entertain as Chair, or interim, I 15 guess, Chair if this goes through. 16 I would entertain a motion to create a three- 17 member committee of the Board to serve as the hearing panel 18 for the General Motors recall matter, with direction that an 19 administrative law judge from the Office of Administrative 20 Hearings be appointed to assist the committee in conducting 21 the hearing in accordance with the provisions of 22 adjudicatory hearing regulation, and approving the interim 23 steps outlined by Ms. Walsh in her presentation, which would 24 include me in that interim role -- 25 MS. WALSH: That's correct. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 89 1 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: -- and working with one of your 2 staff members in that initial meeting with General Motors. 3 MS. WALSH: Right. And then the prehearing 4 conference that I -- 5 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Outlined. All right. 6 SUPERVISOR ROBERTS: I'd make that motion, Mr. 7 Chairman. 8 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Motion made by Supervisor 9 Roberts. Is there a second? 10 SUPERVISOR SILVA: Second. 11 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Supervisor Silva. Thank you. 12 Any discussion? All right. With that, we'll take a voice 13 vote. All those in favor, say aye? 14 (Ayes.) 15 Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries. Thank you. 16 Thank you, General Motors, for being here. I 17 appreciate it. Ray, good to see you today. 18 DR. BOSTON: Mr. Chairman? 19 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yes, Dr. Boston. 20 DR. BOSTON: Is there any way to predict how long 21 such a hearing might take? 22 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: No. I don't think so. It's my 23 sense, semi-informed, that it might be lengthy. But we 24 won't know. 25 DR. BOSTON: Where would the location be? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 90 1 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Probably at some convenient 2 location, I would imagine. 3 MR. KENNY: I think, basically, the location will 4 more than likely be here. But in terms of the amount of 5 time, I think that's a discussion matter that will have to 6 be held between the attorneys for General Motors and the 7 attorneys for the Board in conjunction with the Chair as the 8 presiding -- the interim presiding officer, and we can get a 9 better sense as to the amount of time that will be 10 necessary. 11 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. Does that do it, Dr. 12 Boston? 13 All right. I accordance with the bit of fanfare 14 that we made at the last meeting about having an open 15 comment period for members of the public, I'm going to ask 16 if there's anyone here that wishes to comment on an item on 17 the agenda today or some other such item, please come 18 forward. We're all ears. 19 And if no one emerges, then we'll probably adjourn 20 the meeting shortly. 21 Mr. Kenny, do you have anything else to add? 22 MR. KENNY: Nothing further. 23 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Okay. 24 DR. BOSTON: Mr. Chairman? 25 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yes, Dr. Boston. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 91 1 DR. BOSTON: Can I ask a question in that light 2 maybe? Mr. Schoning, has there been any new information on 3 OBD II or cleaner burning gasoline in our ongoing 4 discussions pertaining to the demonstration the Capitol 5 steps a couple of weeks ago, et cetera? Are we -- 6 MR. SCHONING: Well, I think they're separate 7 issues. I believe the Board has before it in a month or two 8 the OBD II item. And I'd defer to the Executive Officer for 9 further comment on that. 10 MR. KENNY: Dr. Boston, with regard to the 11 protests, the protests have actually been focusing on both 12 cleaner burning gasoline and Smog Check II. And with regard 13 to cleaner burning gasoline, the stations in the Bay Area, 14 particularly KGO and KSFO, have not really departed from 15 their continued attacks on the introduction of cleaner 16 burning gasoline. 17 As for Smog Check II, I think really the Bureau of 18 Automotive Repair has been trying to respond to the issues 19 with regard to that. We have been trying to assist by 20 identifying the emission reductions that are associated with 21 that program, and making it clear that that program -- any 22 emission reductions associated with it -- are part of the 23 recently approved SIP and are very important to achieve. 24 DR. BOSTON: Do we have any effort to counter the 25 publicity that's going on or the attacks that are being PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 92 1 made? 2 MR. KENNY: On cleaner burning gasoline, the staff 3 has put together a document called "Clearing the Air." And 4 it's a point-by-point rebuttal of the allegations that have 5 been raised. And we are also putting out information that 6 essentially highlights what has been happening in the 7 public, the idea -- I mean the examples would be AAA, 8 essentially, their support; the information that we recently 9 received from Caltrans showing what the vehicle miles 10 traveled was in the State between this year and last year, 11 and any information we receive from the Franchise Tax Board 12 showing the, you know, the taxes on fuels and how that 13 number is up, essentially almost in parallel with the number 14 of vehicle miles traveled. We're showing that from a fuel 15 mileage standpoint, there hasn't been any substantial 16 change. 17 We're also looking at things like a Consumer 18 Reports article came out that basically does indicate that 19 cleaner burning gasoline is performing the way that we 20 predicted it would perform. And we're trying to use all 21 that information and convey it to the public so that they do 22 know that the cleaner burning gasoline campaign that is 23 being run by these stations in San Francisco is inaccurate 24 and false. 25 DR. BOSTON: Also for gasoline fires, automobile PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 93 1 fires? 2 MR. KENNY: Yes. On gasoline fires, we have 3 actually done surveys of the insurance companies in the 4 State, of the fire departments in the State. We've looked 5 at the State Fire Marshal's information, and acquired 6 information, all basically showing that there are no trends 7 in which fires are increasing as a result of the use of 8 cleaner burning gasoline. 9 And we're putting that information out. 10 DR. BOSTON: will we get copies of some of that 11 information as you get it. 12 MR. KENNY: You should have copies of that I think 13 already. 14 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Yes. The piece Mike just 15 mentioned is in your handout, Gene. 16 Supervisor Riordan, then Ron. 17 SUPERVISOR RIORDAN: If I could just comment for 18 the staff, and I recognize you're having a lot of 19 difficulties in the northern part of the State. The 20 southern part of the State, I think, is very supportive. 21 You know, at the moment, the price of gasoline has finally 22 drifted down. And when you tell people that the result of 23 introducing this cleaner gasoline into Southern California 24 what it means in terms of -- you equate it to the number of 25 vehicles that are taken off the road and the improvements, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 94 1 you know, people are really very supportive. 2 And unlike Northern California, I have heard some 3 talk shows that have been very supportive -- not only the 4 people calling in, but those who are the talk show hosts. 5 And so, you really do have a very different vision. 6 Obviously, I think in Southern California -- and 7 particularly in the South Coast Basin, I mean, we're sort of 8 reminded of it every day. We look out and it's very clear 9 to us, we still have something in our air. 10 And that's maybe not so true in the northern part 11 of the State where air quality isn't so visible. So, I just 12 wanted to share with you that there is another side of the 13 story in Southern California. And I think we're 14 experiencing very positive feelings, at least with the 15 people I'm speaking to and the Press that I see, so. . . 16 MR. KENNY: I think we've also observed that in 17 the popular Press. And I guess one thing I would add on is 18 that KGO and KSFO in Northern California are somewhat 19 unique, in that much of the Press in Northern California has 20 actually been very supportive of the program. 21 The print media in particular have run a number of 22 articles, and what they have done is they have really 23 refuted some of the allegations that KGO and KSFO have been 24 making. And then a number of the other television stations 25 in Northern California have been running programs in which PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 95 1 they do not follow the same kind of a line. 2 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: I think Gene's comment, though, 3 was wanting to get a sense of how vigilant we're being in 4 defending the program. And I think, Gene, you know, we're 5 fortunate in that Mike Kenny and his technical team, and 6 David Oswald in the communications office have been spending 7 an awful lot of time trying to combat misinformation and to 8 run the circuit to talk to members of the media about what 9 the facts are. 10 Chris Reynolds is over there at the mike, and I 11 know he's going to tell you about the work he's been doing 12 with the Legislature. But we're trying to be as aggressive 13 as possible and stick to the facts. 14 But, as Chris outlined in his overview on the Leg. 15 program and some of the things that are being developed as 16 far as the media being advocates in the legislative arena, 17 we're seeing that now more than ever before. And it's 18 difficult. 19 It takes a lot of resources and, you know, we 20 don't have our own radio station to fight back with this. 21 We have to go out and convince people that there's a story 22 and we have something to say. 23 DR. BOSTON: On of our television stations down 24 there ran a picture of a burning car with a little lady 25 standing next to it. And that type of thing is very PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 96 1 powerful. You get a lot of questions about it. 2 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: And we've seen very important 3 members of the State Legislature have had some members of 4 this television station staff show up with videotapes 5 showing them in their office, then asking for an on-camera 6 reaction. And that's become news. 7 And then we've done a great deal to try to get, 8 like I said, the facts out. 9 Chris, you want to take a minute perhaps and 10 highlight that? 11 MR. REYNOLDS: In direct response to the story 12 that was run about the young lady who had a car fire, there 13 was actually a call from -- I believe it was her 14 sister-in-law -- to our 800 line, who said, "Yeah, I saw her 15 on television giving this interview to the TV news crew, and 16 you know how the car fire actually started? They were 17 trying to prime the carburetor by pouring gas into it." 18 So, it was actually not a result of a fuel leak or 19 anything of the kind. But unfortunately, those are the 20 kinds of stories that they're running, indicative again of 21 KGO's approach to this -- one of the very early stories they 22 did, where they had a person who was pumping gas, who told 23 them that the gas smelled differently, so it must not be as 24 powerful. That kind of thing. 25 And they seem to be accepting that as something PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 97 1 that should be broadcast, because it's meaningful in some 2 way. Unfortunately, with a 50,000 watt transmitter, you can 3 get a lot of people's attention. And the Legislature, as a 4 whole, is responding to this because they are lobbying them. 5 I just -- I only wanted to mention that the Chairman was one 6 of the guest stars, so to speak, at a couple of interim 7 hearings on Smog Check. 8 The Chairman of the Assembly Transportation 9 Committee has said these are the just the first two. He's 10 mentioned that there's a possibility and a probability of a 11 December 4th hearing on gasoline. At that time, we hope to 12 be able to provide a good news message to the Legislature 13 and we are, at the current time, revamping our materials, 14 because we're going to have to deal with the KGO and KSFO 15 factor. We're going to have to say, "Legislature, we 16 promised you there'd be emission reductions. This is what 17 we know about the benzene reduction," for instance. "We 18 promised you that the fuel would perform as well. These are 19 all the independent evaluations that have been done. Oh, 20 and by the way, we tested 869 vehicles ourselves, and all of 21 it shows. . ." And then you had complaints about mileage. 22 And, as the Executive Officer alluded to, the 23 Board of Equalization data on gas sales, in conjunction with 24 the Caltrans information on vehicle miles traveled, 25 indicates that we were very conservative in terms of what we PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 98 1 were saying was going to be the mileage impact. Because it 2 does not appear from that data as though one to three 3 percent is an incorrect assumption to make. 4 So, we're in the process of putting all those 5 materials together. We're going to focus on the December 6 4th hearing. And then there's going to be a November 12th 7 hearing that's going to be hosted by Senator Kopp, Chairman 8 of the Senate Transportation Committee, on Smog Check. 9 So, there are things happening. We're responding 10 to them. And that's what we're doing on the legislative 11 front, because -- 12 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: We can follow up as individuals, 13 too, you know, at the break here and talk to the staff about 14 it. 15 Ron? 16 SUPERVISOR ROBERTS: I just wanted to share with 17 you some recent events in San Diego. 18 The problem we were having, we were starting to 19 see some negative media reporting, because of the cost of 20 gasoline, and the questioning is this worth it. In San 21 Diego, we probably have a 30 cents a gallon increase, and it 22 was hard to explain to people why changing a gas that should 23 have been, you know, a nickel to 15 cents, was costing 30 24 cents more. And we decided just to hit the thing head on 25 and try to separate out what was really going on. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 99 1 And the Board of Supervisors, with Mr. Scheible's 2 help, we had a hearing approximately three weeks ago. I'm 3 pleased to report that since then, the price of gas has come 4 down well over 10 cents and probably close to 15 cents a 5 gallon throughout San Diego County. I'm sure it's just 6 coincidental and has nothing to do with that. 7 But within two days of holding that hearing, in 8 fact, the gas station just across the street from the county 9 building, at six o'clock in the morning, we saw them out 10 there changing their numbers. 11 The prices, hopefully, will continue to come down. 12 But I think that being able to clearly show people that it 13 wasn't the reformulated gas, that it isn't the reformulated 14 gas that's responsible for these increases and start to deal 15 with those for what they are, and I think in all respects, 16 from what I've seen out of our hearing here and our hearing 17 in San Diego, there is some profit taking that's going on 18 that I think is a symptom of a weak competitive market, if 19 you will. 20 And we're going to be addressing that long term, 21 also. We'll see what we can do about it. But I think we 22 actually had "Consumer Bob" on one of the local stations get 23 on the bandwagon with us and say, "Hey, here's the problem." 24 And you can, although we don't have a TV station, 25 there isn't any reason why we can't get our message out and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 100 1 have that carried and cite what the problem is, and have the 2 public focus in on that. 3 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Well said. Mr. Calhoun was 4 going to share a gasoline price statistic with us. 5 MR. CALHOUN: You'd be interested in knowing, 6 Supervisor Roberts, that the gasoline in Seal Beach is now 7 $1.09 a gallon, and that's from a major station, Chevron and 8 76, and I assume the other stations are likewise. 9 So, you may want to encourage some of your people 10 to drive up north, but go back in that direction. 11 SUPERVISOR ROBERTS: We've been following the 12 differential between Los Angeles and San Diego. It was made 13 graphic to me when I went out to watch to the Padres sweep 14 the Dodgers, John. 15 (Laughter.) 16 I was happy not only for the outcome of the 17 series, but the fact that I was able to fill my tank for a 18 couple of pennies a gallon less. So, it was an exciting 19 weekend all around. And I brought that example back to San 20 Diego. And that was part of the reason why we got into the 21 hearings. 22 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Supervisor Vagim, yes. 23 SUPERVISOR VAGIM: Quickly. We have been getting 24 updates. We haven't had one for a while on the gas prices, 25 the rack prices. Hopefully we can get one. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 101 1 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Mr. Scheible, in concert with 2 the Energy Commission, puts together a fairly routine 3 briefing, and I'll make sure that those get out to you. 4 Mike, would you do that? And the price comparison 5 information, which Supervisor Roberts kind of cited I think 6 would be helpful for folks to have. 7 Yes, Mayor Hilligoss. 8 MAYOR HILLIGOSS: I was back in Minnesota in 9 August, and the prices were practically the same as we have 10 out here. 11 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: Really. 12 MAYOR HILLIGOSS: And they don't have our gas. 13 But our lowest in our town now is at $1.25. 14 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: $1.25. 15 Supervisor Silva. 16 SUPERVISOR SILVA: Yes. I'd just like to thank 17 Mr. Kenny for his monthly Board Member news brief. I think 18 that's very helpful. 19 MR. KENNY: Hopefully we can continue to use that 20 to provide you information on a regular basis. 21 CHAIRMAN DUNLAP: All right. What I'd like to do 22 is wrap up at this juncture. But before I do, I'd like to 23 introduce two staff members -- Dennis, would you and Rich 24 come forward? 25 One of the things that the management team here PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 102 1 has been graciously supportive of is adding some resources 2 to the southern California operation. The gentleman on the 3 right in the blue shirt is Rich Varenchik, who is our new 4 public information officer in the El Monte office. And, as 5 you know, that's the second largest media market in the 6 country. And we haven't been represented there. But Rich 7 is down there now, works with David Oswald and Jerry Martin 8 and the crew. 9 Dennis Dickerson on the left has been around for a 10 few months now, but he is Jim Schoning's Deputy Ombudsman 11 located in Southern California. And these gentlemen are 12 professionals, know their business, and they're going to be 13 strong voices for getting reasoned messages out to our 14 stakeholders. 15 So, I wanted you to be familiar with them. Thank 16 you, gentlemen. 17 All right, with that, so I can make good on my 18 promise to close the meeting before noon, I'll adjourn this, 19 the October meeting of the California Air Resources Board. 20 (Thereupon, the meeting was adjourned 21 at 11:50 a.m.) 22 --o0o-- 23 24 25 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 103 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER I, Nadine J. Parks, a shorthand reporter of the State of California, do hereby certify that I am a disinterested person herein; that the foregoing meeting was reported by me in shorthand writing, and thereafter transcribed into typewriting. I further certify that I am not of counsel or attorney for any of the parties to said meeting, nor am I interested in the outcome of said meeting. In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this 3rd day of November , 1996. Nadine J. Parks Shorthand Reporter PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345